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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bucks County, PA, USA
    Posts
    40

    Default New Install - Emergency Cells

    So I Installed 2 3lb of Italians on March 31st. Checked them April 6th Queens where released and eggs where present. Checked hives on April 10th and one of the hive had 6 to 8 Emergency Cells and was unable to locate Queen! 2 cells where capped and the rest were on there way so I think. I am assuming i crushed her last inspection . What should I do and here are some questions.

    - Are there enough drones in South East PA this time of year for a new Queen?
    - Should I order another Queen now or wait?
    - When should I enter the hive again
    - In a few weeks i am guessing I should move a frame of Brood over to the other hive to keep them on the same pace?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    3,971

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    Bummer - but it happens. Since you have 2 hives you aren't in too much of a bind. I would let them requeen even if I was going to buy a new one, because the only way to be sure a hive is queenless is for you to remove it, and requeening a queenright hive will result in a dead expensive queen.

    Give them a frame of open brood 2 weeks after the queen was killed - then again every week until you see proof that you have a laying queen - which will probably be about a month after the incident. This will be insurance against mishaps, will keep the hive strong, and will prevent laying worker - it just about guarantees success.

    Once you can look at the brood pattern you can decide how to proceed - but without any kind of emergency.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bucks County, PA, USA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    Thanks David.

    what frames should I be taking from the other hive? An outer with a few eggs???

    I am new so they are drawing comb and I don't want to weaken the other!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Palm Bay, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,297

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    With 6-8 cells already in place you don't need to give them eggs. If they're low on bees (package bees die off over time too), giving them eggs and young larva will tax the ability of the bees to feed and care for the brood. No need to order a queen, the bees have this under control! In a couple of weeks check them again for population, just lift the lid to see how many bees are left. If they're low on bees you may be able to take a frame of capped/emerging brood from the other hive to boost the numbers. Don't jeopardize the other hive though. You should have eggs/larva from the new queen in 3 weeks or so.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hays NC
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    ZEB
    Buy a laying queen for the hive.It will take about 30 days from egg to laying queen in your hive.It could take longer if the virgin queen does not get back from mating .If the virgin queen raised buy your hive does not make it back you will have to buy a queen to save the hive any way.So i would save the time and get a laying queen from some one now.You will lose one 1 brood cycle while you wait for your hive to raise the new queen, to she is laying.More if the virgin does not get back.Waiting means no new bees, no honey.
    Just my thinking.
    Jim

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
    Posts
    3,536

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    Checked them April 6th Queens where released and eggs where present. Checked hives on April 10th and one of the hive had 6 to 8 Emergency Cells and was unable to locate Queen! 2 cells
    April 6 to April 10th is 4 days the the way I add and it takes 9 days from egg to capped cell so they were trying to replace her from the get go, I would leave them bee after all they do know more than we do
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bucks County, PA, USA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    Thanks you everyone for your replies!

    honeyman46408 - Well that makes me feel a little better abotu the situation.

    I think I am going to let them try to Queen themselves and take it as a learning experience! I may add some brood in a few weeks to keep the colonies some what similar.

    Thanks Again

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bucks County, PA, USA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    UPDATE

    Not sure what is going on!!!

    Check the hive on August 16th the Queen cells where still there and I placed a frame of young eggs in the Queen less hive to try and keep populations equal and stop a female from becoming a layer!

    Today I went to check the feeders and thought it would be a good idea to check the eggs now should be larva and the Queen Cells. When I started looking I came across All Honey, Nectar and Pollen. All the Queen cells where gone besides 1 that was have broken down and another they must have made that was open and didn't look to have anything in it! There also was brood in the hive and now has none! (Installed on 31st of March) So there should be some brood (original queen) and larva (New frame) BUT NOTHING!

    There are no Eggs. Haven't seen marked queen since the 6th! I ordered a queen and will be here tomorrow.

    This is what i was thinking please let me know what you think... I go through and make sure they are truly Queenless! Move a frame of some brood and Eggs from other hive. Introduce queen with the cage and a whole poked in the candy. I would move 2 or frames with just foundation in to center so that she will have room to start laying as they draw the comb out. since all other frames are of nectar or honey.

    Please let me know......

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,971

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    Quote Originally Posted by Zib View Post
    UPDATE
    16th the Queen cells where still there and I placed a frame of young eggs in the Queen less hive to try and keep populations equal and stop a female from becoming a layer!

    Today I went to check the feeders and thought it would be a good idea to check the eggs now should be larva and the Queen Cells....There are no Eggs. Haven't seen marked queen since the 6th! I ordered a queen and will be here tomorrow.

    This is what i was thinking please let me know what you think... I go through and make sure they are truly Queenless! Move a frame of some brood and Eggs from other hive. Introduce queen with the cage and a whole poked in the candy. I would move 2 or frames with just foundation in to center so that she will have room to start laying as they draw the comb out. since all other frames are of nectar or honey.

    Please let me know......
    Since you had eggs on the 6th and didn't observe any queen cells at that point lets say that you went queenless on the 6th like you think. Then you saw queen cells on the 10th - that agrees with killing the queen when you inspected on the 6th - those queen cells emerged on or about the 18th - 2 days ago.

    You probably have a virgin queen in the hive at this point - if you put a store bought queen in there the virgin will most likely kill it. Your virgin will probably start laying on about the 28th. Virgins can be really hard to find. If you have a nuc, steal a frame of brood and bees and another frame of stores (not the Queen!) from your other hive and intro the mail order queen into the nuc. With a little luck you end up with 3 hives and all 3 queens lay like gangbusters and all is well. Worst case - your virgin gets eaten by a bird on her nuptials, and you combine the little nuc with the then queenless package. If you let her kill the mail order queen she can still get eaten.

    Since it's so early in the season even a very small hive can build up to full size by fall - I have several like that right now myself.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bucks County, PA, USA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    David LaFerney - So with think that they took a 3 day old egg and made a queen on the 6th so she would have really stated from an egg on the 3rd or 4th?

    Also what happen the to brood (original Queen) and eggs (I put in on Monday)????

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    3,971

    Default Re: New Install - Emergency Cells

    It takes 3 days for eggs to hatch, and they are candidates for making queens for about 36 hrs after that. Any queenless hive will try to make a queen if it has the resources. As far as what happened to the eggs/brood that you put in... If for any reason it was not viable (chilled for example) they might have cannibalized it. Only a guess. All of it is only a guess, but it is extremely common to think you are queenless when there is actually a virgin queen in the hive. Virgins don't always become queens so having another queen on hand is a good thing to have. Every bee keeper should strive to ALWAYS have a "spare" queen on hand.

    Good luck.

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