Installing my bees, read different things, WHAT is the right way? HELP!

**Bees4Us** · 04-10-2012, 07:41 AM

Hello everyone!

Once again, I love this forum

I will be receiving 2 packages of bees on 4/30 this month. We have everything set up and ready to go. I want to do some 'dry runs' first, and make sure I don't screw this up! I have been reading a couple of books, and they differ on HOW to actually install the bees. So, I am going to mention some of the things they have told me, and please if someone wants to put out step by step on their experience, I would be delighted

First of all, I have the following ready for each hive: 2 brood boxes, and 2 supers.

I was told to dump the bees in one of the deep brood boxes, and do not add the other brood box until I see 7-8 of the frames filled with comb. So, do I only start with ONE brood box? I was also told I need to check to see if the queen was released within 3 days after? Should I check the queen cage, or leave it alone? I was told also to not check things until after a week? I also read that when installing bees, to remove 5 of the frames to dump them, and to put the package they came in, inside the place where the 5 frames were to let the rest of the bees out, and to leave the brood box open? Then I read to leave the 5 frames out, and leave the package on the ground (after the first dump or two) and let the remaining bees come out on their own. I thought I would install them, put the 5 frames back in, put the cover on, then the top, and leave the package there open and the remaining bees would find their way in??

OH, and I am using a styrofoam feeder that goes on top of the hive.

I thought I was supposed to do this:

Received bees (they are shipping to a local Dadant supplier) and bring them home, and set them somewhere dark and quiet for about an hour to let them calm down. Then, after abour 5pm or so, to take them out to the hives (keep in mind I have two), so do I take them both out at the same time? Then, spray them with sugar water to, open the top, pull out the queen cage, recover the hole, make sure candy side up, and install her in between 2-3 of the frames (after taking out 5 of them) spray bees again, install them into hive, (1 brood box) and then not sure what to do with remainder of bees in package, since books have confused me above. Please help.

Then, do I start on the second hive and repeat above right away?

I also would like to mark the queens, can I do that with her in the cage? Didn't want to take her out and chance her flying away.

So, one brood box to start? Then come back and check the queen in 3 days or not? Then add the second brood box after most frames are filled with comb? Here is the biggest question...

DO I USE A QUEEN EXCLUDER BEFORE I ADD A SUPER?? LOTS of opinions on that! I know this first year I won't have any honey for me, that is ok, so maybe no excluder this first time?????
And next year, if I don't use an excluder, what's to keep her from laying eggs in the honey?

*breath*

Thank you all for your help, and I really hope to get some good advice

Sometimes, books just aren't enough!

**mbcpa** · 04-10-2012, 08:48 AM

I've only installed two packages, but I can tell you how I did it. Neither package absconded. I'm also learning that everyone has an opinion about this stuff and there rarely seems to be a wrong way.

I started with only one deep. I left the queen in the cage and shook the bees from the box into the hive. I checked the queen in three days. I think that not using all 10 frames from the get-go will encourage comb in places you don't want it. I just set the box next to the entrance so that the few bees that didn't shake out could walk in.

I didn't add a second deep until I had 7-8 frames drawn.

Do some more reading/asking and worry about the queen excluder later.

**MrHappy** · 04-10-2012, 08:53 AM

You can't really mess it up, no matter how you do it, you will do it ok. Bees are really flex able. This is my first year too, but I've installed a few packages, extracted a few swarms, and got a Nuc installed. So I've learned a few in the short time I've had them. First thing you'll need to learn and remember is the old saying, "if you ask 10 beekeepers a question you will get 11 answers". This is why there are so many books and so many people saying to do it this way or that. They are all right, but just different ways to do it.

To start, I would probably spray them with sugar water as soon as you get them. They might have been in the box for a while and need water. I would spray them again when you get home and every hour before install and then before you install. You can't feed them to much unless them is water pooling on the bottom. I don't know that a dark place will help, but out of the sun is good.

I would put only one box on to start. It will take them a few weeks probably to build out the wax on it and if you have two boxes to start with they will build on the second one and might not go back down to the bottom one. That's why waiting till 80% of the box is drawn out is advised.

I would go ahead and take out a few frames and dump the bees in, replace the frames, and then mount the queen in the middle. I don't know that the direction of the candy box/opening really matters. The queen being there a few days is what will make sure most of the bees stay, and once the workers build a little wax for her to start laying in, then she will stay.

Once most of them are in, I'd put the box on the ground outside. The bees inside will stick their butts in the air and tell the other bees left in the box that this is where the queen is and to come in here.

Yes, you can go right to the second hive and do the same thing. Some bees might switch queens/hives but in the end it won't really matter that much.

The timing to check on them is a matter of discussion for a bunch of people. Some say just let her go the day you get her, some say 3 days, others say a week. I think if you are just going in to pop the candy on the queen then get out, 3 days is about right. I made sure I could get to the queen through the inner cover so I didn't even really open the hive.

I then wait 2 weeks to get back in the hive for the first big inspection. That should be long enough for them to make a bit of wax, the queen to start laying, and some of the eggs to turn into larva that you can easily see. There should be some nectar also on the edges. Once you see this, you have a successful hive and you can do what you want.

Personally I wouldn't put on a Q excluder at least for the first year. The first year is pretty much just for them to build up enough food to make it through the winter. It is always better for them to have to much than not enough, especially the first year. IMHO.

I think I got most of it for you. I know more will post and give more opinions too.

**bison** · 04-10-2012, 08:59 AM

First take another breath and calm down.... good... the installation process isn't that difficult and is hard to screw up. There are several methods as you note and likely all work just fine. The process you note will work fine: take out 4-5 frames, put the queen cage between a couple of the remaining ones, then dump all the bees into the hive. Don't be too gentle about this, they can take a good shaking without being injured. Then put back in as many frames as you can, you'll probably be one short because of the space caused by the queen cage. Close the hive and leave the mostly empty package near the entrance and leave them alone to find their way into the hive. Fine to do one hive immediately after the other - they'll find their way into the correct hive.

Two days later check the queen cage to make sure she's out (if not just release her gently into the hive. Put the last frame in (carefully), make sure all the frames are smooshed together with no extra space (except at the sides as needed). Feed them and otherwise leave them alone for a week (or more). When you look after a week you'll probably not yet see eggs or larvae, don't worry as long as they're busy making comb. It will be a coouple weeks after installing before larvae are obvious.

Only use one deep at first. After most of the frames are built out, add a second one. When most of the second box's frames are built, add a super.

You can't mark the queen in the cage. YOu'd have to hold her and mark with a special pen. Not something I would recommend for a new beekeeper.

Many opinions regarding queen excluders - do a search of these boards for more info. First though you don't need one until you add a super. They are optional, though I think it makes life somewhat easier for a new beekeeper.

**Island Apiaries** · 04-10-2012, 09:03 AM

I have heard these questions all before and My advice is to follow whichever instructions feel good to you. Everybody has their own way of releasing packages and one is really no better than the other in the grand scheme of things. I have 2 method I use. Pull 3 or 4 center frames dump the bees and replace the frames with the queen cage in the middle. You could peek after 3 days to check on the queen, but I usually wait 5-7 days. Another method of package installation is to have a deep with frames, pull the queen cage out and put it between frames and then place the package upside down so the hole is directly above the queen cage. Place and empty hive body around the package, cover with a lid and come back a day or 2 later to remove the empty cage and deep.
There will always be a few stragglers, so just place the cage in front of the hive and they will move when they feel like it.
The main thing to do is relax and enjoy your new bees!
As far as excluders are concerned, you will get 12 different answers fro 11 different beekeepers on that one. Start off with it, if the bees don't go through it, take it off. Queens will USUALLY confine themselves to the brood area. If she doesn't, use the excluder.
Have fun with your new bees. you will be learning a LOT of great stuff this season! Goo luck!

**Tom B** · 04-10-2012, 09:05 AM

Bees4us-

You will get tons of advice on this question, as everyone develops their own technique, as will you.

I tend to keep things very simple:

A single deep or 2 mediums to start, dump the bees in with some of the frames removed and then carefully replace the frames. I keep the queen in the cage and hang the cage from a nail on one of the frame top bars. I release her manually in 5-7 days by either removing the cork or just pulling off the screen. I would not try to mark the queen, there is really no need.

I hive the packages as soon as I get them. While transporting (in the back of my pickup) I keep the packages in a storage tote with the lid popped so they can get some air. Your package bees will be very docile, almost catatonic.

To get the bees out of the package and into the hive, bang the package on the hive to get the bees off the top, pry out the feed can and remove the queen cage. Dump the mass of bees into the hive and shake the package to get the rest of them out. Replace the frames and hang the queen cage, put on the inner cover and some 1:1 sugar syrup, and the outer cover. Keep entrances reduced for a good long time until it looks like a traffic jam and then gradually increase size of the main entrance and add an upper entrance.

**geebob** · 04-10-2012, 09:07 AM

Wow... lots of questions there. I'll take a shot at a few of them.

1. Adding the second brood box... Yes, wait until the bees have filled 7-8 frames. So you'll have a bottom board, one brood box, one feeder, and a cover.

2. Dumping versus placing the package in the box... I've tried both and they both work. If it were my first time, I'd go with dumping them in, as you get your hive set up done in less than an hour and you can catch your breathe and relax for a few days. If you do go with placing the box inside, I'd pull the screen off of one side to encourage them to crawl out.

3. Spraying with sugar water... I'd just use water to keep them from flying. If the weather is at all chilly they'll have a hard time cleaning themselves off and you might wind up with a clot of dead bees. Spraying a small amount of sugar water on the sides of the cage is ok if you want to give them a quick feeding.

4. Queen release... lots of controversy about this and you may want to do some further reading. My preference with Langstroth hives is to use a slow release (take the cork out of the queen cage and give the bees a few days to chew through the candy), but I'll also admit that I've never had a problem when I've gone ahead and released the queen immediately. If you do a slow release, check the queen cage after three days, releasing her if she is still in the cage.

5. Bees stuck in the package... Keep dumping until you have most of them out. Then you can pull back the screen and set the package next to the hive. Most of them will find their way into the hive.

6. Excluders... You probably won't need a queen excluder for a while, and you may not decide to use one at all. First they will have to draw out 8 frames in the first brood box, then draw out 8 frames in a second brood box (assuming we're talking about 10 frame deep boxes), and then have enough of a nectar flow to warrant adding honey supers. So in that span of time you can type in "queen excluders" in the search box and find all kinds of interesting opinions about them!

7. Marking queens... I would not try it. I'm still not comfortable handling individual bees (I've been practicing on drones), and the chances of catastrophe outweight the benefit.

8. Second hive... I would plan to hive one package your first day. If you are comfortable with how everything went, then go ahead and install the second package. If something goes wrong, or you have questions, then you can correct your mistakes the next day when you install the second package.

9. Filling the feeder... As you'll be checking on the hive after a few days (if slow releasing the queen)or a week, don't overfill the feeder. They may be slow to take syrup at first, so put about a quart in to start. One of the worst feelings you can have is soaking your bees with syrup from an overfilled feeder.

Good luck and let us know how things go! And good for you for asking in advance and rehearsing your install. Sounds like you are going to be a great beekeeper.

**MrHappy** · 04-10-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by geebob

One of the worst feelings you can have is soaking your bees with syrup from an overfilled feeder.

LOL, I did this once. I put to big of holes in the jar I made and it was dribbling out faster than they could take it. I only had a regular bottom on that hive so it all pooled on the bottom and in the week between checks I had a bunch of drown bees.

It's all about learning from your mistakes.

**sammyjay** · 04-10-2012, 10:04 AM

My advice to you is that if you have a queen cage with a wooden cork with no candy is to pry the cork off very gently and carefully. I accidentally stabbed my queen with a nail when the cork slipped suddenly. She had no physical injuries that I could see, but she was quite scared. Put a some crystallized honey over the hole or a marshmallow in the hole. Also, if you get a tube package, take the three center frames out, pound the bees down, take the top off(which might require prying some staples off), and if you get the queen cage hanging on a piece of cloth, tear it out and take the queen cage off of it and put her screen down temporarily, then pound the package on the bottom board and on the frames that are still in if you didn't get them all out when you pounded on the bottom board, and squeeze the cage in between two frames, the screen side exposed to air and the hole facing down. Also make sure she's away from the hole when you pry it off so she doesn't escape.

Nathan

**Oldbee** · 04-10-2012, 11:16 AM

"....and then place the package upside down so the hole is directly above the queen cage. Place and empty hive body around the package, cover with a lid and come back a day or 2 later to remove the empty cage and deep."

First time I have heard of that method and I would be very leary of doing it that way. Most of the bees will probably be attracted to the bottom box where the queen is and leave the package, but I suspect too many would stay in the cage. Secondly, and most probable/problematic, is that many bees will start to cluster and hang from under the inner cover. When the beekeeper goes to take the cage out there will be all these bees [flying around to] in the empty hive body rather than down in the lower box where they should be starting to build comb cells already; even after a day or two. You don't want the bees to have all this empty space [to make mischief,..

] even for a day. [The only way this method might work OK. is by putting the package upside down over the hole of the inner cover].

Keep it simple and dump the bees into hive. When I feed the bees by spraying the screen lightly with sugar water about an hour before install, the majority of them just roll into the space provided by the removal of a few frames. My reason for spraying with syrup is so they fill their honey stomachs, rather than wetting their wings.

If you want to mark your queens in the future, it is best to practice, practice catching and holding drones; and then marking them first! There are also methods and special queen holders for doing that.

**Bees4Us** · 04-10-2012, 01:39 PM

You all are awesome to take time to respond to me

I feel loved! I can't wait to get my babies, and get them installed! I love getting all this info, and will be reading it a couple of times until I go to pick them up! Thank you all so much! I am on the road right now, and can't reply as much as I would like, but will in a few days with more questions about some of the responses I have received!

**willyC** · 04-10-2012, 02:31 PM

Make a list, in your own words, step by step and have someone read it out loud and check it off as you do them. Also have that person take pictures of each step as you Do them, ex. "pull cork from queen cage candy" so when you wake up in the middle of the night wondering "did I pull the cork... the right cork" you can look at your list and photos and go back to sleep

**Irmo** · 04-10-2012, 03:01 PM

Great advice here. i would also go to You Tube and search on "beehive package installation". I always find it helps to see it done. There are a ton of videos and combined with all the pointers here, you can come up with the steps that make the most sense for you. Good luck.