Problem with Trap-out - entrance is around some pipes!

[summerbeegirl]

I have been asked to do a trap-out on a friend's house, and I went to assess the situation and about had a heart attack. It's my first trap-out. They don't know how long the bees have been there, but it's a very happy hive. VERY busy. The problem is, the entrance is a pipe entrance and the opening surrounds the pipe. How do you put a trap on that crap?

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I was thinking about putting foam on the backside of the hole and somehow getting a trap on the front side only, and someone else mentioned I should drill another hole and patch up the one around the pipe then put a cone over the drilled hole. Suggestions?

Also, can't do a cut-out per homeowner.


BTW thanks so much...

[mrsl]

I wouldn't drill unless I was certain of what was behind the plywood, since you have water and electrical lines there (although you may be able to use a hole saw without the pilot bit and be OK). You can build a plywood box to fit around everything, and install a trap-out cone made from 1/8" screen wire to the plywood (drill a 1" or so hole in the plywood box so they can get out). Make sure that your friend knows that even if you are able to trap the bees out, more bees will likely move in if you are not able to cut the hive out (not to mention that the hive brood/honey will decay & ferment and will be equivalent to having a dead cat/squirrel in there; makes a nasty mess). Good luck; hope everything goes well.

[summerbeegirl]

I tried putting a wire trap around it. Didn't work so well. It was going fine at first, but I can't attach anything to the wall. Nothing sticks to the plaster, and as mentioned, they don't want me nailing things in or drilling holes, etc. A plywood box would have the same problems of wrapping around the pipes. Here's a pic of the terrrrrrrible job I did with a wire cage:

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As you can see on the 3rd pic, the tape has failed and there's a gape at the top of the cage. I'm looking for a way to do this cleaner and easier. It's just too complicated to try and do it with a cage method.

[Rader Sidetrack]

You said, "you were asked ....", so presumably the owners recognize that having bees live in the building is a problem. They need to understand that to permanently solve the problem, some changes will have to be made to the area (screws, nails, holes, etc). If they can't accept that, then explain that you can't help them, and walk away.

Even if they hire an exterminator, someone will have to cut holes in the wood to clean out the dead hive, or it will decompose in there.

If you really want to invest the time into this, come up with some 2x4's long enough to reach almost from the ground to the flat ceiling shown by the pipes. Place a 2x4 flat on the ceiling, then wedge the vertical 2x4's underneath the flat one securely with shims, add cross bracing and use that temporary structure to seal your trap body to the wall and ceiling. Use enough vertical 2x4s and bracing to make sure your temporary framework is not going to shift. Make sure to bill them for your time and materials if you use this method.

[mrsl]

Sorry, didn't realize it was plaster. Silicone caulk may work, it sticks to almost everything (might be able to embed the wire into the caulk & stick it to the plaster). I did some really tough cut outs last year to help people who could not afford to hire anyone who does that for a living, but I would probably walk away from this one. I am not a carpenter or mason, and let people know that they will have to repair anything that I remove, and if they don't want to remove anything then I recommend that they call a professional to do the job. I was able to get other local people to do the carpentry and brick repairs for the cutouts that I did (they also donated their time; I provided the materials, which were minimal). I would not do a trap out on a building unless I was allowed to remove the hive contents, since I would not want the customer to tell everyone that I did a lousy job when more bees move in or the smell gets really bad. I've done several trap outs on trees and came back a few days after I removed the trap out cone to close the entrance (hoping that would be enough time for wax moths to strike); so far no complaints about any of those jobs.

[northbee]

You might be able to use some thin sheet goods (masonite, 1/4 " plywood) as a substrate to fasten screen to. take your pieces of sheet goods and slide them behind the refridgerant lines and alongside the piece of wood to the left of the entrance. I cannot explain exactly how I would proceed from there but this would be an idea to try.

I agree with comments already made about making the homeowner aware of the downsides of leaving the nest inside the cavity. Of course by letting it be robbed out you limit some of the ill effects. Good luck.

Yuuki

[summerbeegirl]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I made them aware of the issues when you leave old comb inside a wall prior to agreeing to try a trap-out. I think it might be prudent to remind them again.

I have an idea using foam (like the stuff from couch cushions) that I'm going to try on Tuesday or Wednesday and I'll post the results here. If it doesn't work, I'll just let them know it's beyond my scope of expertise and that I recommend they hire someone. I am in an apartment and don't have the space for woodworking to create a box, especially one that has to fit around pipes going in two directions - I thought this would be a simple matter of putting a cone escape on and a nuc next to it with open brood. HAH! Nothing in life is that simple, huh?

If I'm able to get them out, how do I go about having them rob out the old hive without moving back in?

[HTC]

The pipes look like the gas and electric for a refrigeration unit of some kind so be care full making new holes around it. But it should of been sealed around the feed through hole when it was installed for rodent control. Where was the inspector?? O MY

How why not take a short piece of pvc and place it through the hole and then foam in the hole then you would have a nice entrance for the bees. Then place your cone on the pvc. Later you can cap the pipe

[David LaFerney]

Stick a piece of pipe/hose in the crack to use as a new entrance and then seal up the rest of it with silicone or packed aluminum foil. Give them a few days to reorient to the end of the hose (which could be pretty long, and end in a convenient spot) and put the cone on the end of it. You might have to enlarge the crack around the pipe a bit to get the hose in.

[summerbeegirl]

Awesome. That's what I was looking for, HTC and David. THANK YOU! I'm going to try it Wednesday. Wish me luck!!!

gonna get some beeeeees....

[David LaFerney]

Great - I hadn't noticed that HTC had already come up with the same answer. When you are doing trap outs though foam products such as Great-Stuff don't always work, because the bees can chew through it if they want to - same goes for regular latex caulk. Of course if you play your cards right they might not bother - they will if you are trying to seal up a main entrance though. But silicone caulk is pretty much bee proof and so is aluminum foil or steel wool packing. Be sure and tell the customer that bees will most likely move back in if they don't fill the cavity with something after you finish. A trap out I did 3 years ago had a swarm move back in last year. Good luck.

[HTC]

David thanks for the bit about bees eating through the foam. Interesting I have used it to keep more then one pesky woodpecker out of my house, they do not like the foam. I tried covering the hole with wood and the bird would eat through that.

[David LaFerney]

David thanks for the bit about bees eating through the foam. Interesting I have used it to keep more then one pesky woodpecker out of my house, they do not like the foam. I tried covering the hole with wood and the bird would eat through that.

That's actually a second hand tip - I think it depends on how badly they want to eat through it. I used it before I knew any better and it worked, but people with more experience swear that it isn't reliable. Anyway, it's kind of messy and expensive - it's just really fast.

[summerbeegirl]

Thanks everyone for your help. Just wanted to update - I did this trap-out, using aluminum foil and a couple one-way escapes, but alas, the homeowner had another hole (again around pipes) not 5 feet away. Of course the bees found it and were totally uninterested in the nuc box I had out for them with brood inside. I didn't see the second hole before because there's a huge A/C unit in between the two holes, but - ugh - the bees are busier than ever. I plan on working on it again with the help of someone else who has some ideas, so hopefully it'll go well. I also found out why the wall wasn't finished correctly - they had a contractor working on their house as well as another business project of theirs, and the business project took priority so the bees somehow moved in between the next-to-last and last step of finishing on the house. Well, that's life I guess.

[whiskers]

Another approach- suppose you establish an outside entrance to the hive, assuming it abuts an exterior wall. You have to be careful not to drill into wires or pipes... that's on you. Now plug all the interior holes that lead into the hive, spackle with steel wool embedded in it should stop any bee that doesn't have a k-12 saw. If successful you have a couple of options. One, just go home. There were bees (for years) in the porch roof of the house I lived in as a youth, they caused no problem, and took care of their hive so no stain or smell occurred. Two, read Cc Hogans trapout info and do it from outside which will probably be more convenient for both you and the householder and will also allow you to take as much time as you require. Hopefully the exterior entrance will wind up somewhere near the ground. Good luck never hurts and I wish it for you.
Bill

[summerbeegirl]

gooooood idea. I think that's what my friend Dale suggested too. And I think it might be the thing to go with. I have taken the time to read about Mr. Hogan's trap out info. He's ingenious, really. I think I'll go over it again prior to attempting this job.

Thanks for the good luck - and the advice.