Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

[David LaFerney]

Anyone thinking about trying Mann Lake PF120s and that line of all plastic frames - You need to know that they are small cell, and non-small cell bees don't always draw them out correctly - especially in honey supers. The rite-cell foundation on the other hand seems to always get drawn out beautifully. BTW, I've never added more wax to them, and so far I've had good results.

[KQ6AR]

We've dumped a lot of swarms on the man lake PF frames. I usually put one drawn frame, or a brood frame in the box.
Most of the swarms stay.
We don't add any wax to the man lake PF frames, use them right out of the box.

I have not had a swarm move into a swarm trap with them yet.

[Adrian Quiney WI]

I use the Mann Lake PF's, have never started a hive on anything else since my TBH. The only concern I have is that occasionally I will come across one that is warped so badly that the bees will only draw out one side of it.
In drawing them out the biggest variable I have noticed is the colony that is working them. My large colonies, on a flow, or my nucs have drawn out comb easily, my also-rans - not so much.

[TripleS]

All are wax coated. After reading several comments I will try adding more wax.

[TripleS]

Thank you for all of the replies! I have both Mann Lake and Dadant foundation and frames. Some are plastic on wood frames others are all plastic. I have ordered only wax coated foundation, although upon inspection there does not seem to be much wax. I will pull out the paint brush/craft roller tonight and get to painting wax. I'll add them to my current swarm boxes plus a few established colonies to see if it makes a difference. Thanks again!

[minz]

They would not draw out my plastic so this year I painted them. Now I wonder if I may have got it too deep. I am putting one frame with comb (mostly drawn from a cut out), one plastic (with extra wax) and struggling to figure out what else to add to the traps (since I have 6 the number of extra gear) I have some wax shallows, and plastic coated mediums (none drawn).

[max2]

Not sure if I'm on the right track...I'm replacing all my Plastic Frames ( made in Australia) for a different reason then the ones mentioned above. The problem I have is that our Plastic Frames have reinforcing on the side bars and they are SHB heaven as bees can't get into them.
I have also started to replace wired queen excluders for the same reason ( SHB can get into the sides where bees can't chase them)

[beehonest]

Well I am anxious to see what happens, I have always been die hard wax. But I got a pre assembled Mann Lake hive for CHRISTmas. It came with plastic, so on Friday I will find out, I am installing a package in it. I have heard that if you start with it it is OK, but if you take bees that are used to wax, they don't won't to build it out? I hope it works OK,being able to buy pre assembled, not have blowouts, and not having to worry about wax moths sounds great to me! You know the old saying, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. I have proved this wrong with bee suits, I hope plastic proves it wrong also.

[WI-beek]

"Unfortunately, Wax and plastic are both oil-based solids...100% compatible for leaching purposes; so the wax is pretty "transparent" to any toxins that would leach out of the plastic & into your honey (in the brood, the toxins affect only the bees, so that'd be of SLIGHTLY less concern than poisoned honey)."

What leaching may occur would be so minimal it should not be of any real concern to anyone. If they are going to be that paranoid to worry about parts per billion of contaminates from plastic leaching through past the wax then they will probably want to take a big breath and hold it and never take another breath ever again for the rest of their life. There are so many unhealthy chemicals, pollutants and other unhealthy particles that leach into the air from the plastics in our cars and other pollutants from exhaust and factories and such and as we know pollution from Japan and China end up in our air here as well. By not breathing any more they could avoid all the health risks that they are subjected to if they continued to breath. I think it would be really foolish to worry about such little things like consuming the leached chemicals from plastic though honey if you are just going to keep breathing it. You have to go all the way or you are just wasting your time.

[WLC]

I've had a similar experience as described by the OP.

Natural comb came out O.K. .

I put in some rite cell deep frame foundation for a project (making deeps) and they turned out fine.

However, I still can't get my bees to draw out PF 120s.

So, yes, once they go natural cell, they won't do the PF 120s, but will do rite cell.

It is most annoying.

[Roadstar]

We use PF 120's, and have no problems getting the bees to work them. I brush on some extra wax, spray them with 1:1 syrup when I put them in the hive, and the bees draw them out just fine. We use the medium frames in our supers, and they take to them fine too. We don't add wax to the mediums, but we do spritz them with 1:1 when we put them on.

[Joseph Clemens]

Last night I brushed extra beeswax onto the cell walls of a batch of PF120 frames, also some that had been cut out and mounted in wooden frames. This morning I installed many of them into brood nests, between frames of brood. Late this afternoon I checked to see how they were doing, of the five I examined, all were already completely drawn out into comb. Adding extra beeswax really does the trick.

[Michael Bush]

>non-small cell bees don't always draw them out correctly

I have not had that problem with the PF120s.

[bluegrass]

I just picked up a few hundred sheets of Perma-dent foundation by mistake. I am going to try it out, anybody here use it before?

[honeyman46408]

I have used Perma-dent in honey supers and like it but I just a small guy

[Keth Comollo]

I just picked up a few hundred sheets of Perma-dent foundation by mistake. I am going to try it out, anybody here use it before?

Brad,
I could use about 20 sheets of that Permadent if you don't like it. I can pay you for it when I meet you in Brattleboro.

Cheers,
Keth

[bluegrass]

I put all the deeps together already. I do have some mediums if you want some of those.

[Keth Comollo]

I am all set on mediums!

Cheers,
Keth

[Buzzsaw2012]

I'm a new beek.
We installed a 2 lb and a 3lb pkg each on mann lake sc frames and they are drawing them out nicely.
I did add extra wax and spray of sugar water .

I wish I could figure out the picture thing , pictures turned out nice .

[beehonest]

Ok, I am liking the plastic so far! It is a lot faster and more durable. I started a package back on the 9th and they are filling the frames out nicely! I did nothing to them put them in as they were shipped. I think what I have been hearing is right, if you start them out on that they take to OK. If you switch them from wax, or regular cell, they don't like the change. Keep you updated.