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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,100

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Anyone thinking about trying Mann Lake PF120s and that line of all plastic frames - You need to know that they are small cell, and non-small cell bees don't always draw them out correctly - especially in honey supers. The rite-cell foundation on the other hand seems to always get drawn out beautifully. BTW, I've never added more wax to them, and so far I've had good results.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,148

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    We've dumped a lot of swarms on the man lake PF frames. I usually put one drawn frame, or a brood frame in the box.
    Most of the swarms stay.
    We don't add any wax to the man lake PF frames, use them right out of the box.

    I have not had a swarm move into a swarm trap with them yet.
    Dan

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,206

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I use the Mann Lake PF's, have never started a hive on anything else since my TBH. The only concern I have is that occasionally I will come across one that is warped so badly that the bees will only draw out one side of it.
    In drawing them out the biggest variable I have noticed is the colony that is working them. My large colonies, on a flow, or my nucs have drawn out comb easily, my also-rans - not so much.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Henry, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    All are wax coated. After reading several comments I will try adding more wax.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Henry, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Thank you for all of the replies! I have both Mann Lake and Dadant foundation and frames. Some are plastic on wood frames others are all plastic. I have ordered only wax coated foundation, although upon inspection there does not seem to be much wax. I will pull out the paint brush/craft roller tonight and get to painting wax. I'll add them to my current swarm boxes plus a few established colonies to see if it makes a difference. Thanks again!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    742

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    They would not draw out my plastic so this year I painted them. Now I wonder if I may have got it too deep. I am putting one frame with comb (mostly drawn from a cut out), one plastic (with extra wax) and struggling to figure out what else to add to the traps (since I have 6 the number of extra gear) I have some wax shallows, and plastic coated mediums (none drawn).
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Not sure if I'm on the right track...I'm replacing all my Plastic Frames ( made in Australia) for a different reason then the ones mentioned above. The problem I have is that our Plastic Frames have reinforcing on the side bars and they are SHB heaven as bees can't get into them.
    I have also started to replace wired queen excluders for the same reason ( SHB can get into the sides where bees can't chase them)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    380

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Well I am anxious to see what happens, I have always been die hard wax. But I got a pre assembled Mann Lake hive for CHRISTmas. It came with plastic, so on Friday I will find out, I am installing a package in it. I have heard that if you start with it it is OK, but if you take bees that are used to wax, they don't won't to build it out? I hope it works OK,being able to buy pre assembled, not have blowouts, and not having to worry about wax moths sounds great to me! You know the old saying, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. I have proved this wrong with bee suits, I hope plastic proves it wrong also.
    All beekeepers can agree on one thing, and that one thing is, that all beekeepers can't agree on one thing.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chippew County, WI, USA
    Posts
    650

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    "Unfortunately, Wax and plastic are both oil-based solids...100% compatible for leaching purposes; so the wax is pretty "transparent" to any toxins that would leach out of the plastic & into your honey (in the brood, the toxins affect only the bees, so that'd be of SLIGHTLY less concern than poisoned honey)."

    What leaching may occur would be so minimal it should not be of any real concern to anyone. If they are going to be that paranoid to worry about parts per billion of contaminates from plastic leaching through past the wax then they will probably want to take a big breath and hold it and never take another breath ever again for the rest of their life. There are so many unhealthy chemicals, pollutants and other unhealthy particles that leach into the air from the plastics in our cars and other pollutants from exhaust and factories and such and as we know pollution from Japan and China end up in our air here as well. By not breathing any more they could avoid all the health risks that they are subjected to if they continued to breath. I think it would be really foolish to worry about such little things like consuming the leached chemicals from plastic though honey if you are just going to keep breathing it. You have to go all the way or you are just wasting your time.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I've had a similar experience as described by the OP.

    Natural comb came out O.K. .

    I put in some rite cell deep frame foundation for a project (making deeps) and they turned out fine.

    However, I still can't get my bees to draw out PF 120s.

    So, yes, once they go natural cell, they won't do the PF 120s, but will do rite cell.

    It is most annoying.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Troy, IL
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    We use PF 120's, and have no problems getting the bees to work them. I brush on some extra wax, spray them with 1:1 syrup when I put them in the hive, and the bees draw them out just fine. We use the medium frames in our supers, and they take to them fine too. We don't add wax to the mediums, but we do spritz them with 1:1 when we put them on.
    Please visit our Beekeeping Blog
    http://akhoneybees.blogspot.com/

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,385

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Last night I brushed extra beeswax onto the cell walls of a batch of PF120 frames, also some that had been cut out and mounted in wooden frames. This morning I installed many of them into brood nests, between frames of brood. Late this afternoon I checked to see how they were doing, of the five I examined, all were already completely drawn out into comb. Adding extra beeswax really does the trick.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,217

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    >non-small cell bees don't always draw them out correctly

    I have not had that problem with the PF120s.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I just picked up a few hundred sheets of Perma-dent foundation by mistake. I am going to try it out, anybody here use it before?
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
    Posts
    3,539

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I have used Perma-dent in honey supers and like it but I just a small guy
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Winhall, VT
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I just picked up a few hundred sheets of Perma-dent foundation by mistake. I am going to try it out, anybody here use it before?
    Brad,
    I could use about 20 sheets of that Permadent if you don't like it. I can pay you for it when I meet you in Brattleboro.

    Cheers,
    Keth
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I put all the deeps together already. I do have some mediums if you want some of those.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Winhall, VT
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I am all set on mediums!

    Cheers,
    Keth
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Medford ,Wi
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    I'm a new beek.
    We installed a 2 lb and a 3lb pkg each on mann lake sc frames and they are drawing them out nicely.
    I did add extra wax and spray of sugar water .

    I wish I could figure out the picture thing , pictures turned out nice .
    Last edited by Buzzsaw2012; 04-25-2012 at 01:28 AM. Reason: picture didn't show up

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    380

    Default Re: Plastic Frames-Biggest Mistake Yet

    Ok, I am liking the plastic so far! It is a lot faster and more durable. I started a package back on the 9th and they are filling the frames out nicely! I did nothing to them put them in as they were shipped. I think what I have been hearing is right, if you start them out on that they take to OK. If you switch them from wax, or regular cell, they don't like the change. Keep you updated.
    All beekeepers can agree on one thing, and that one thing is, that all beekeepers can't agree on one thing.

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