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  1. #101
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Maybe he is taking a break from all the arguing you and he seem to do. Maybe he is busy working at whatever he works.
    You must have missed it, Bispham and I have not argued in a very long time, he leaves me alone now. He will always argue with most other folks though if he thinks he can win, and that's what the majority of his posts are about.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    I've about decided that the problem was too many bees.
    I remember the discussion around that & advice at the time from experienced bee movers was do not block them in.

    Too many bees do not kill a hive, blocking them in does. It's one of the biggest arguments I have with some people who buy my bees, some of whom seem hell bent on ensuring all the bees they have just paid for will be dead by the time they get home. Experience is the only way some people can learn. One guy did too, soon as he was out of my site he pulled over & blocked all the hives in, this so he could visit a relation on the way home. I heard via his friend that when he got home there was not a bee left alive. The guy himself though has never fessed up to me about it, but I am sure he will not do it again.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #103
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    You must have missed it, Bispham and I have not argued in a very long time, he leaves me alone now. He will always argue with most other folks though if he thinks he can win, and that's what the majority of his posts are about.
    I'm sure I did miss it. I stopped reading your interactions w/ him and his w/ you.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  4. #104
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,458

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    You have to love how NBC's report attempts to balance Dr. Lu's bee poisoning experiment involving 24 hives against the real world experiences of about 3,800 respondents operating well over a half million hives. Furthermore the bee informed survey can't begin to determine whether treatments were timely or effective only that they were administered. Ideal treatment windows are often quite narrow.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #105
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    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote - "The survey found that bee mortality was much lower for beekeepers who carefully treated their hives to control the mites".

    I have highlighted carefully, because I think this is one of the main weaknesses in the survey. The treatment free participants, who seem to be the majority, avoid treating if at all possible. It is only when they see a hive badly infested with mites and in obvious distress, that they may reluctantly decide to treat it. However going by the treads I've seen with people talking about this, very often the hive is too far gone & dies out completely not long after treatment is applied.

    Then on the survey, this hive is entered as one that was treated, but died anyway. But what really killed the hive, was not being treated, early enough.

    However, despite these types of discrepancies, IMO the survey is being done as well as it could be, working with a diverse group of people using many methods and having many experience levels, and not being able to fully investigate each case, it melds the whole thing into a workable result.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #106

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Furthermore the bee informed survey can't begin to determine whether treatments were timely or effective only that they were administered. Ideal treatment windows are often quite narrow.
    The nail on the head.
    They offered a twelve month window on treatments....then without regard for timing....weighed them all equally. If they refine their data collection a bit more.... they just might produce something meaningful.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    1,256

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I remember the discussion around that & advice at the time from experienced bee movers was do not block them in.

    Too many bees do not kill a hive, blocking them in does..
    Actually, I took your advice and put screened tops on the 8 frame deep boxes. The boxes were identical, one died and one did fine. I think that there were too many bees in one box, since that was the only difference between them.

    Are you saying I should have left the hive completely open? How would that have worked in a car? If you were to put them on a trailer with the entrance open, wouldn't you lose a lot of bees over a 36 hour trip? I don't have a bee net.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  8. #108
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Quote - "The survey found that bee mortality was much lower for beekeepers who carefully treated their hives to control the mites".
    Would applying Apivar in March when varroa counts are very low be considered carefully ​treated?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  9. #109
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    Jan 2011
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    Athens, OH
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    applying Apivar in March
    How were they in September?
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  10. #110
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Why do you ask? I am trying to treat carefully starting w/ my Spring treatment. I will use Apigaurd come Fall.

    I figured that a Spring treatment when few varroa wete present would result in few being present come Fall.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  11. #111
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Actually, I took your advice and put screened tops on the 8 frame deep boxes. The boxes were identical, one died and one did fine. I think that there were too many bees in one box, since that was the only difference between them.

    Are you saying I should have left the hive completely open? How would that have worked in a car? If you were to put them on a trailer with the entrance open, wouldn't you lose a lot of bees over a 36 hour trip? I don't have a bee net.
    Thats a tough scenario Ray. Ideally for a trip that length they would be netted (perhaps in a pickup box) and have the freedom to crawl in or out as needed. I have put screens on hives many times but never for more than overnight and even then with some trepidation if it was warm at all. What can happen (and what you no doubt experienced) is that they can begin to get restless and a layer of bees will quickly plug up the screen, smothering all the bees under them. A screen top and bottom would greatly help with some type of shade board above the screen and a couple 2x2's underneath to allow for air flow.. When you stop you can lay a paper towel on the screen and thoroughly soak it so that the bees get a controlled drip of water over them. Perhaps you can pick up a piece of shade cloth at a local nursery?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #112
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    Actually, I took your advice and put screened tops on the 8 frame deep boxes. The boxes were identical, one died and one did fine. I think that there were too many bees in one box, since that was the only difference between them.

    Are you saying I should have left the hive completely open? How would that have worked in a car? If you were to put them on a trailer with the entrance open, wouldn't you lose a lot of bees over a 36 hour trip? I don't have a bee net.
    Oh, sorry something I had input into did not work out. As memory serves though there was also an understanding they would be out of direct sun and airconditioning would be used. If it's a real crowded hive stopping the car and turning off the aircon even for a short while can be the end of the bees.

    Re travelling with the hives open, yes, that's the only way I do it. Better to lose some of the bees that all of the bees. If it's more than a day (which is a long time since that's happened for me) the trip is planned so driving starts in the morning before bees are flying & othert than quick refuel stops, once I stop for the day I stay there for the night & get moving next morning again.

    I do sell bees to people who do not have the ability & have to take hives blocked in. In those cases it's a judgement call about what extent to mesh the hive tops, etc.. it depends on hive makeup, weather conditions and how they will be travelling, but I can say not one hive I have sold has been lost in transport in many years, provided the purchaser has followed my instructions.

    I recently sold hives that were meshed in, and went on a truck on a public ferry, to an offshore island, so that was one thing I had to get absolutely right or could have been a major disaster!!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #113
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    Jan 2011
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Why do you ask?
    I'm trying to get away with doing nothing in Spring. So did the Spring treatment make a difference?
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  14. #114
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    In the brood broken when the supers were taken apart to day no mites were seen. Out of all of the broken brood from 32 hives. Not that every hive had broken brood.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  15. #115
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    That's pretty good. Did you treat those again in Fall?
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  16. #116
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    I treated them last Fall. But not again in the Fall yet.

    I used Apigaurd last Fall. I experienced a higher Winterloss than I expected, but I don't blame that on the Apigaurd. I blame that on not feeding enough.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  17. #117
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    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Jim, that was exactly what happened-- a thick layer of bees built up on the mesh top and the screened opening and a vent hole in the bottom, and choked off the air. There were 3 inches of dead bees in the bottom, and at least a couple of inches pressed into the top. I really think there were just too many bees, because the other nuc, which I'd made up just a few weeks before, did fine. They were in an air-conditioned car and shaded. I drove straight through-- took about 36 hours.

    I'm planning to put the nucs I'm taking this time on a trailer, with a sheet of roofing metal over them for shade (blocked up away from the tops, so there's air movement between nucs and metal.) I do have a camper's mosquito net. I wonder if I should net them with that and leave the entrances open. No, I don't guess that would hold up to the buffeting at highway speeds.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  18. #118
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    Dec 2005
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    How are you going to hold the sheet metal down so it doesn't act like a sail and flop around from the wind.

    I don't think the sheet metal is a good idea. The hives don't need shade as much as they need constant air circulation. Get on the road. Stop for fuel and food and get back on the road. Don't go inside and sit down to a leisurley meal. Eat in the car. Stop at Flying J truck stops and find the water hose over where the mobile homes fuel up and use that water to hose down your hives. That's what I am going to do when I go get my nucs.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  19. #119
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    An air conditioned vehicle would work IF you are really vigilant. Keep a cooler of ice handy and if they get restless lay a papertowel over part of the screen and place some ice on top of that. I have tried ice right on the screen but it can be kind of tough on the brood, though it will settle them down in a hurry.
    But a 36 hour trip if they are very populous?.......I dunno.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
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    5,113

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    That was two days worth of "how I treated my hives" and "how effective were your/my treatments?" in the treatment-free forum.

    I'm going to go take a shower.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

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