Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 124
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,066

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    > I guess it's time to shave the beard and get some Grecian Formula.

    Or bring along a cane to enhance the "older gentleman" effect. If you looked younger you might still be waiting for help at the counter.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,990

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I was standing at the OfficeMax Computer Repair counter, alone, yesterday when I heard a clerk announce that there was an elderly gentleman who needed help.
    I have seen your photo. I thought the announcement would have been - Emergency, there is a Hells Angel at the counter, serve him, get him out.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lucasville, OH, USA
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Perhaps backyard beekeepers are happy to be asked and commercial beekeeper are tired of being asked and are busy working at keeping their business afloat. And having already answered USDA production surveys have better things to do.
    Perhaps I worded my question badly. "Bothered" can have a negative connotation to some ears. "Opted not to respond" may have been a better choice.

    Everyone gets surveys for different things. Surveys about their visit to the doctor, the store, the movies, etcetera. We either take them or ignore them depending on our mood, available time, attitude towards surveys, whether or not we think our responses will be beneficial in some way, and in some cases whether or not we have an ax to grind.

    With this in mind, I'm sure that "backyard" beekeepers are happy to respond, especially if, like myself, part of the reason for getting into beekeeping in the first place was reading about the problems bees are having and wanting help in some way especially if they were already interested in bees to begin with. We likely aren't going to be receiving survey requests from the USDA, though I'm sure that individual states will have their own surveys.

    On the other hand, not being a commercial beekeeper and a being new "backyard" beekeeper at that, I have no idea what various surveys commercial beekeepers may be asked or required to complete and submit or whether or not those surveys mirror or overlap the one in question. If commercial beekeepers have already answered a bunch of surveys I can see how yet another one might be frustrating or annoying if they don't see any added value in it. Or, as others have indicated, they may not have a good idea as to how many they lost over the winter due to the sheer number of hives they do have (though it seems to me that at some point at the end of winter you'd be checking for dead colonies so you can reuse the equipment, etcetera.)

    I suppose another related question would be "At what point does a beekeeper become a "commercial" beekeeper? Does a hobbiest cross the line into commercial the first time they sell their excess honey at a farmer's market? Start raising queen bees to sell to others in their club? What's the definition of "commercial"? I suppose there may be some who do not identify themselves as commercial in the survey because they don't consider themselves so but actually are under some definitions.

    In the end, though, I was surprised by the ratio of non-commercial to commercial beekeepers who responded, which prompted my query.

    Regards,
    Tom

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tango Yankee View Post
    What's the definition of "commercial"?
    I think I speak for a great number of users of this forum when I say "no."
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,990

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tango Yankee View Post
    In the end, though, I was surprised by the ratio of non-commercial to commercial beekeepers who responded, which prompted my query.

    Regards,
    Tom
    Small beekeepers hugely outnumber large beekeepers.

    You may want as many commercial beekeepers to answer the survey as small beekeepers, but it cannot happen.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lucasville, OH, USA
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Small beekeepers hugely outnumber large beekeepers.

    You may want as many commercial beekeepers to answer the survey as small beekeepers, but it cannot happen.
    While I suspect that the originators of the survey would be gratified to have as many beekeepers as possible respond to their survey, my question was based on my surprise at the ratio of non-commercial beekeepers to commercial beekeepers as I have no idea what that actual ratio is. I was surprised at the huge difference between the two. For all I know that five percent was a majority of commercial beekeepers.

    Regards,
    Tom

    PS I certainly didn't expect my query to generate so much activity!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,363

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    I am betting that anyone that studies the science of polling will tell you that the results of voluntary polls such as this tend to get skewed because the answerers dont tend to be a representative cross section but may well be heavily weighted towards the extremes on either end of the spectrum, each wanting to make sure their case is being made and hopefully with honest data. The marketplace, though, never lies and this late winter and spring was most certainly a sellers market for bees. Clearly there were some higher than expected bee shortages.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,673

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    the results of voluntary polls such as this tend to get skewed because the answerers dont tend to be a representative cross section
    I'm sure this is true but it's still a pretty interesting read. The numbers might not be right on but I wonder how much it is skewed.
    Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. -Frank Zappa

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,003

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I think I speak for a great number of users of this forum when I say "no."
    Did u mean NOoooooo!! ? Not that question again.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lucasville, OH, USA
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Did u mean NOoooooo!! ? Not that question again.
    It was a mostly rhetorical question. I'm sure there are people out there with 200 hives selling honey, queens, and beeswax products along with hauling hives to get paid for pollinating local fields who will say they're just doing it to support their hobby and therefore do not consider themselves commercial.

    It is a reasonable question and your reaction does indicate that it is a common one and apparently a touchy one, too. Perhaps the Beekeeping Glossary should have an entry for it: "Commercial Beekeeper: You become a commercial beekeeper when you decide that's what you are" or something like that. Or not. Perhaps just "Don't Ask."

    And with that, I will not pursue it further.

    Regards,
    Tom
    Last edited by Tango Yankee; 06-11-2013 at 08:34 PM.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,003

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    We had a whole Thread arguing about what defines the term ommercial beekeeper and another arguing about whether there were any or very many TreatmentFree Commercial Beekeepers. You may have heard the old saying that if you ask 10 beekeepers a question you will get 11 answers? Well, to answer your question, in my opinion, it takes more than simply doing business w/ your bees. The majority of your income should be made thru beekeeping. It's what you do for a living. The American Beekeepers Federation considers 300 colonies as the number which puts one in the Commercial Category for dues paying members. Many people will say 500 plus. Someone w/ 20 hives, selling honey, selling nucs, and selling queens is not, imo, a commercial beekeeper. Doesn't mean you aren't a beekeeper.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,419

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tango Yankee View Post
    "At what point does a beekeeper become a "commercial" beekeeper?
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...red-commercial
    Regards, Barry

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lucasville, OH, USA
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Thanks for the link, Barry. Perhaps it should be in the glossary next to "Commercial Beekeeper". :-)

    In further hindsight, perhaps my question would have been more accurate if I'd asked what the group that put out the survey considered "commercial" for their purposes.

    Mark, I don't have any dogs in that fight, just curiosity. Part of my thoughts on it had to do with the idea of being a professional--once you start getting paid for something you go from being amateur to professional kind of thing, but I recognized that definition wasn't a good fit. In the end it's probably more about semantics and opinion than anything else after a somewhat vague point when so many different factors can be cited and weighted differently depending upon the point of view.

    Cheers,
    Tom

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,003

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Tom, We are okay. No problems. In beekeeping there are terms which we use that mean things to those whose avocation is beekeeping. I hope I don't seem to be talking down to you. I don't mean to. We have a certain understanding of what the terms "hobbyist" (or small scale), "sideliner", and "commercial" beekeeper means. There probably is a "Dictionary of Beekeeping Terms" out there somewhere, maybe on beesource itself, but mostly it's an understanding. Some people may say to people outside of beekeeping circles that they are a Professional Beekeeper, but I haven't heard that term amongst beekeepers. Welcome to beesource. I hope you stick around.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lucasville, OH, USA
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    No worries, Mark. Every profession, career field, hobby, etcetera has its own language. I'm still learning Beekeeper. I like the bees, and so does my wife. We've found that beekeepers are a friendly lot. I'll be here a while.

    Cheers,
    Tom

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    900

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    I'm disappointed that it is the middle of July and there is still no final report from Bee Informed. The only thing they seem to have posted are the preliminary results from back in early May. It may be silly of me, but I was kinda hoping to use the results to help point me in the right direction for my winter planning.



    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper & Rusty's Bees ( LC and T)

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,003

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    You were looking to a National Survey to decide how to manage your bees? Why? How would that work?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    900

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Thanks to last year's survey, I 'll be using upper entrances for winter. Thanks to last year's survey, I didn't bother experimenting with small cell or FGMO. Thanks to last year's survey, I changed my approach to SHB. Saved some time and resources.

    Rusty

    edited to add: I think the biggest impact for me was seeing how little difference y'get from using or not using options that have set off absolute firestorms on these boards between the various factions. Everything seems to work or not work about equally. That was very freeing for me. It allowed me to just go with my own gut on most stuff, knowing that my choices wouldn't be any better or any worse than anybody elses. LOLOL
    Last edited by Rusty Hills Farm; 07-13-2013 at 11:29 AM.
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper & Rusty's Bees ( LC and T)

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,256

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    I found the surveys very interesting too. You do have to bear in mind that even though commercial beekeepers have the largest representation in the survey, the commercial guys who actually responded are a very small minority of the commercial industry.

    But that said, I took great reassurance from the fact that of the respondents, those who treated their hives didn't have significantly different survival rates from those who did no treatment. This was a welcome bit of information to me, because you hear, over and over on forums like this, that if you don't treat, you are an evil bee abuser who doesn't care if his bees live or die.

    I think it's human nature to want to do something when things go wrong, and sometimes, we may be doing things that actually make matters worse than they would be if we did nothing. There's certainly plenty of examples of such mistakes from the past... Theodoric of York comes to mind in that regard.

    Anyway, any statistician would tell you that the survey is fundamentally flawed. Still, some data is better than no data, and there is data to be mined from the survey results.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,519

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    for those who took the survey, you may recall that a lot of management option questions offered the response of 'i'd rather not say'.

    answers like this or not wanting to be surveyed at all for a similar reason is why the results have to be viewed as biased or at least not necessarily representative of the universe of managed bees.

    still, the trends that are borne out are somewhat helpful.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads