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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Athens, OH
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Product O
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
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    5,116

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Hmmm, that was the year I had the most colonies and the least losses in all my career.

  3. #83
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Still saying losses are not significantly higher for treatment free folks Solomon?

    Ray?

  4. #84
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    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Still saying losses are not significantly higher for treatment free folks Solomon?

    Ray?
    Well, it wasn't true for one year, at least.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  5. #85
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    It was actually, just had to read the data properly, through an unbiased lens. This year they have seen how it was misinterpreted & written it harder to misunderstand, or cherry pick to suit an agenda.

    Where's Bispham? He's all over the forum like a rash, then mentions a few mite issues, next thing poof, he's gone, vanished! Collecting new swarms I guess to maintain numbers.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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    626

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    The results were interesting, thank you for sharing Oldtimer.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    I meant that there was a significant difference last year, but it was true in some prior years that the difference was less. I always found it odd that there was so little difference in prior years, because I assumed that most non-treaters were relative novices, and thus more likely to lose their bees, for other reasons.

    So far my problems have been too many bees, and hives that were excessively strong for the backyard, but I'm sure I'll have different results by fall.

    My North Country bees had 100% survival, despite the ferocious winter. But honesty compels me to admit that I only left one hive up there. Still, I was astonished that it survived, because it was a little light in October, and I failed to close down the entrance. No wrapping or insulation, and yet it was brooding up nicely in April.

    I'm taking a half-dozen home-made nucs north to NY in a few days. It's nice not having to buy bees.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  8. #88
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Ray there has always been a difference, as one would expect, despite what has been said on Beesource.

    It has been stated on the likes of Beesource that there is no difference, however that has been backed up by spin and carefully cherry picked and massaged data, or not backed up at all.

    The previous survey, which some claimed showed no difference, when read properly showed a 30% difference and because of all the dishonesty I demonstrated that one time. None of the people who had been using data in a misleading manner responded.

    This is all the more remarkable considering the stressors commercial hives are subjected to that treatment free, stationary, intensively cared for, hobby hives, are not subjected to.

    Anyhow congrats on having all but one of your hives survive.

    Where's Bispham? Kinda quiet around here lately.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    30,552

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    I'm taking a half-dozen home-made nucs north to NY in a few days. It's nice not having to buy bees.
    How r u going to do that and not have the same experience as last time? When r u coming North?
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    5,108

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    My losses this past winter were actually a bit higher than the winter before but more significantly hive populations were down. Why? There is no doubt in my mind that it's because I got a bit behind on our treatment plan. My hives got a single thymol treatment which I chose to delay because of a late heat wave. We didn't do any oxalic treating because it got too late on us to do it up north. Late winter/early spring sampling was showing 2 to 3% infestations at a time of year when it should be difficult to find a mite. This spring we changed course and opted for a single treatment of either oxalic or Hopguard at the 3 week window post queen removal in our spring nucing and saw a good mite knockdown. Bees look awesome right now, well see how they look 4 months from now.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  11. #91
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    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    How r u going to do that and not have the same experience as last time? When r u coming North?
    I'm going back to the standard nuc boxes that I moved without problem last year, I'm putting them on the trailer under shade instead of inside the car, and I'm moving nucs that aren't as chock full of bees as the one I lost. I had another nuc that made it fine on the same trip that killed the big nuc-- the one that died had a lot of bees. It was an overwintered nuc that was booming. I've about decided that the problem was too many bees.

    I'm planning to take off in a few days.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  12. #92

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    From another thread. VanEngelsdorp is one of the principal investigators. He says it in no uncertain terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    The survey found that bee mortality was much lower for beekeepers who carefully treated their hives to control the mites.

    VanEngelsdorp said small-scale beekeepers in particular should be more diligent about using anti-mite treatments.


    http://www.nbcnews.com/science/envir...deaths-n105651
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  13. #93
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    I've about decided that the problem was too many bees.
    I remember the discussion around that & advice at the time from experienced bee movers was do not block them in.

    Too many bees do not kill a hive, blocking them in does. It's one of the biggest arguments I have with some people who buy my bees, some of whom seem hell bent on ensuring all the bees they have just paid for will be dead by the time they get home. Experience is the only way some people can learn. One guy did too, soon as he was out of my site he pulled over & blocked all the hives in, this so he could visit a relation on the way home. I heard via his friend that when he got home there was not a bee left alive. The guy himself though has never fessed up to me about it, but I am sure he will not do it again.

  14. #94
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    You have to love how NBC's report attempts to balance Dr. Lu's bee poisoning experiment involving 24 hives against the real world experiences of about 3,800 respondents operating well over a half million hives. Furthermore the bee informed survey can't begin to determine whether treatments were timely or effective only that they were administered. Ideal treatment windows are often quite narrow.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote - "The survey found that bee mortality was much lower for beekeepers who carefully treated their hives to control the mites".

    I have highlighted carefully, because I think this is one of the main weaknesses in the survey. The treatment free participants, who seem to be the majority, avoid treating if at all possible. It is only when they see a hive badly infested with mites and in obvious distress, that they may reluctantly decide to treat it. However going by the treads I've seen with people talking about this, very often the hive is too far gone & dies out completely not long after treatment is applied.

    Then on the survey, this hive is entered as one that was treated, but died anyway. But what really killed the hive, was not being treated, early enough.

    However, despite these types of discrepancies, IMO the survey is being done as well as it could be, working with a diverse group of people using many methods and having many experience levels, and not being able to fully investigate each case, it melds the whole thing into a workable result.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Furthermore the bee informed survey can't begin to determine whether treatments were timely or effective only that they were administered. Ideal treatment windows are often quite narrow.
    The nail on the head.
    They offered a twelve month window on treatments....then without regard for timing....weighed them all equally. If they refine their data collection a bit more.... they just might produce something meaningful.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I remember the discussion around that & advice at the time from experienced bee movers was do not block them in.

    Too many bees do not kill a hive, blocking them in does..
    Actually, I took your advice and put screened tops on the 8 frame deep boxes. The boxes were identical, one died and one did fine. I think that there were too many bees in one box, since that was the only difference between them.

    Are you saying I should have left the hive completely open? How would that have worked in a car? If you were to put them on a trailer with the entrance open, wouldn't you lose a lot of bees over a 36 hour trip? I don't have a bee net.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Quote - "The survey found that bee mortality was much lower for beekeepers who carefully treated their hives to control the mites".
    Would applying Apivar in March when varroa counts are very low be considered carefully ​treated?
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



  19. #99
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    Jan 2011
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    Athens, OH
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    applying Apivar in March
    How were they in September?
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Bee Informed National Survey

    Why do you ask? I am trying to treat carefully starting w/ my Spring treatment. I will use Apigaurd come Fall.

    I figured that a Spring treatment when few varroa wete present would result in few being present come Fall.
    Let America Be America Again http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hugh...-Again1938.htm
    Mark Berninghausen



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