New Top Bar Questions

[CoyoteMoss]

Installed a new top bar hive 10 days ago. Thumb tacked the queen cage on one of the bars. After 3 days opened up and queen was out and bar had a lot of comb to the point I had to cut comb around the cage to get it out. Today (10th day), I opened back up for first inspection. Entrance is on the end. Back from the entrance bars with the bar closest to the entrance being #1---- Bar 6, 5, & 4 perfect comb. But had cross comb between 3 & 2 which I cut with a bread knife to get bar 3 out. Wasn't sure if I should cut out of bar 3 the section where the cross comb was????
Appears they started building on bar 2, because bar 1 was not as complete as bar 2. But had a lot of cross comb build between 2 and 1. Attempted to cut cross comb, but after lifting bar 2 out the whole thing fell off bar. Did not have clips or tie wraps or anything to re-install. Inspected close for queen and brushed off bees and put comb in plastic bag. Brood comb lost. Did not realize they would build up this fast.

1) How often should I inspect/open a top bar - new hive?
2) Is cross comb that common? Should I expect it to be a given (cross comb)?
3) Is cutting cross comb the right thing to do or should I have just left the bars as is and walked away?
4) In my langstroth hives I rarely see this and if I do it is mostly between the walls and end frames or between the frames and the frames 0f the box above it. Is this common for top bar hives?
5) When this occurs, should I cut out the section of comb where the cross comb has occured to dis-courage?
6) Does a cross bar hive require more attention than a lang?

[quevernick]

1. I try to inspect my TBH about once a week. I might up that to 2 times a week if they were just starting to build comb.

2. Once you get them building straight comb they generally continue to build straight comb. So far I haven't had the bees in my TBH cross comb yet although I have had them cross comb in my foundationless Lang

3. You definitely want to deal with crooked/crossed comb as soon as possible. They use the frames on either side as a reference when they are drawing out the next comb. So if the comb is crooked it will continue to be crooked.

4. As I mentioned earlier it hasn't been a problem for me. I've never installed a package but from what I've read putting the queen cage in usually means you end up with crooked/crossed combs because they are working around the cage.

5. You could always do a cutout and pull both frames and try and save as much as possible.

6. In my experience TBH do require more attention than Lang Hives.

[Beev]

What kind of comb guides are you using on your top bars?

[Steven Ogborn]

Yup. Hanging the queen cage in mine last year really messed mine up.
The bees cluster and festoon around the cage, instead of the comb guides. They start building comb from there.
This can be out in any direction from there. I had to cut-out and re-hang every comb they started, until I ran out
of hair clips to work with. Then I left, I think 3 combs that were still cross combed way in the back of the hive.
They later abandoned them and I took them out altogether.

Like quevernick said, about twice a week sounds good, until they get some straight comb.
If they try to get small combs going crooked , you can gently bend or twist them "just a little bit" to try to get them straighter.
Not much. As you noticed, this stuff is really soft. Don't think that they're going to be perfectly staight as if they were
on foundation in a frame. Just a working straightness will do.

[CoyoteMoss]

Beev - have all 1-3/8" bars in at present. The bars have a 1/4" square wood strip that were glued and staples to the top bar. Guess I just understood that this width bar is best for brood area. I do have some 1-3/4" bars I plan to add/use later for honey storage.

[CoyoteMoss]

Appreciate everyones help. This was a really bad experience that I hope never to repeat or if so - plan to be a little more prepared for. Based on your help and thinking back, the cross comb between 2 & 3 was right were the queen cage was hung. The cross comb between 1 & 2 was further down the bar. Wanted to inspect sooner but weather and work schedules have not allowed. (Had 6" of hail last weekend, even brought out the snow plows to clear the roads.)
When this happened, I kind of went into panic mode and just closed everything back up. Will go back today for repair, check and salvage operation. Also, need to check and make sure the queen is still there.
Again thank you for helping me and any other advice or wisdom will be appreciate.

[Beev]

Although triangular shape is more preferred, the square strips should work fine. There are plenty around who don't recommend hanging a queen cage because of that. Best of luck.

[SteveBee]

We have direct-released the queens in every package install so far, including three yesterday. Never a problem. I know some people are nervous that the bees will kill the new queen if they don't leave her in the cage long enough, but proof that the queen cage in the hive messes up the first combs just isn't worth it. We've probably release 15 queens in the last two years and the bees were glad to see her.

[Steven Ogborn]

I thought of my hive with the whole thing cross combed last year, as a bad experiance at the time. After I had fixed it, and
looked back at it. I realized what a blast it was to do it. TBHs are sold as a more natural hive for bees. We still have to have
straight combs to make them workable and legal. Bees don't really like straight combs. Curved combs are stronger. If you've
ever seen natural combs in the wild, you probably didn't see a straight edge in the whole thing. I've seen pictures of the
bottoms of skeps and gums where one comb would completely wrap around another. With TBHs, forcing the bees to build
straight combs is one of the unnatural things we have to do to keep them. There's always going to be some cutting or
tweaking all the time. Once there's good comb going, it gets easier and can be kept to a minimum.

[SteveBee]

As Steven Ogborn says, straight combs are essential. And once you have a hive full of nice, straight combs, it is a pleasure to work.

[Steven Ogborn]

There's a lot of Steves on Beesource.

[CoyoteMoss]

Thanks Steve and Steve....n