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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    203

    Default Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Opened the hives today and the shallow supers I placed on last weekend are full of bees working but all the foundation has fallen over. I am wanting to get cut comb from these shallows so I thought that's why I should just use was foundation only with no wire support. How do you guys remedy this? I went ahead and just scrapped it all out bc the bees had already begun pulling comb out in all directions of the fallen foundation. Any helped would be greatly appreciated.

    Sully

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Do i glue the foundation in the top groove or somehow wedge the wax foundation into the top groove?

    Sully

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,487

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Traditionally I think foundation is set in wax when used in grooved frames. There are tools for this, and it requires a fairly large container of melted beeswax.

    I would use wedge type frames for cut comb, it's more likely the foundation will stay up until the bees get some drawn.

    Peter

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,858

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    I don't have the copper tube with melted beeswax, which is probably what I should do. On the frames where this is a problem, or if I'm just adding a strip of foundation for the bees to draw out, I'll take a beeswax candle, light it and drip wax on to the point where the wood meets the foundation.

    Doesn't take a lot of drips to "tack" the strip in place.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Woodlawn, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    327

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    If you have holes on your end bars (usually used for wiring), put some bobby pins in to hold the foundation in place. One on each end should give you a lot more support. You can pull them out when the bees get the foundation tacked in place, or just pull them when you get ready to cut the comb.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Standman, awesome idea thank you very much!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,071

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Melted wax works, or use the wedge to pinch it in there. You could also just use a strip of foundation and let them build in the rest. As long as the hive is level side to side, it should work out.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,809

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    If people would stop recommending foundation to these poor newbees... this would never happen with foundationless...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    let us know how the bobby pin works out please.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,572

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    If the foundation is.falling over, it isn't for lack of bobbypins in the wire holes....its that it isn't attached at the top of the frame.
    deknow

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,824

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    If people would stop recommending foundation to these poor newbees... this would never happen with foundationless...
    I was a NewBee 40+ years ago and never had foundation fall out. They should know more about their endeavor before undertaking it. Too many NewBees who take up beekeeping like they are buying a kitten or puppy. A leash, a bowl, some kibble, a blanket and off they go.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sullivan, MO
    Posts
    885

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    You know Mike was being tongue in cheek, because some many people say that new people can't handle going foundationless. I don't want to speak for Mike, but the point is new people make mistakes no matter what philosophy of beekeeping they are following. Those who don't like foundationless should just stick to teaching people who use foundation on the proper way of going that way, and those that like foundationless will stick to helping people who want to go that route.
    Rod

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Slippery Rock PA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    If people would stop recommending foundation to these poor newbees... this would never happen with foundationless...
    I agree. Just bought six hundred foundationless frames from Kelley's. That would fix your problem.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Limestone, TN
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Hmmmm....so those of us who prefer foundation, cut comb, etc...and have a market for it...and are new to beekeeping should just go ahead and get rid of all our bees and burn up our equipment and forget the hobby of beekeeping...interesting concept...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sullivan, MO
    Posts
    885

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by postie View Post
    Hmmmm....so those of us who prefer foundation, cut comb, etc...and have a market for it...and are new to beekeeping should just go ahead and get rid of all our bees and burn up our equipment and forget the hobby of beekeeping...interesting concept...

    That's not what anyone is saying. You are sort of caught in the middle of the debate between the foundation people and the foundationless people. I think everyone foundation or foundationless is saying to make sure you get plenty of information before moving forward. The foundationless people are just saying that they don't have to worry about foundation falling out or sagging before it's drawn. We have to worry about other things, but not that. Each approach has it's pluses and minuses and people just need to decide what works best for them.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chatham County, NC
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by rweakley View Post
    The foundationless people are just saying that they don't have to worry about foundation falling out or sagging before it's drawn.
    People who ride bicycles don't have to worry about their gas tanks exploding, but then neither do most people who drive cars. His problem had nothing to do with choosing foundation vs. foundationless. It was the type of foundation with the type of frame or the lack of tacking it in with wax that caused his problem.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Murray KY, USA
    Posts
    263

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    If people would stop recommending foundation to these poor newbees... this would never happen with foundationless...
    Not to mention with a cut comb product, isn't the word that the bulk of the wax [foundation] you buy from big distributors is contaminated with various chemicals because of so much useage by the major industry?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,809

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    When I used foundation, I would not put thin surplus foundation in (usually thin and unwired) until just before I put on the super. I would use grooved top bars and I would wax the foundation in with a wax tube fastener. I would also use 7/11 foundation from Kelley so I don't need an excluder.

    >You know Mike was being tongue in cheek

    Yes the above reference to foundation was followed by a wink for a reason.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,824

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    >I would also use 7/11 foundation from Kelley so I don't need an excluder

    I attempted to replace queen excluders with 7/11 foundation but my queens happily make it into drone brood, one hive in several boxes.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,809

    Default Re: Wax foundation falling, how to fix?

    It seems when bees are desperate for drones and there is little drone comb in the brood nest, they will tear any comb down that has no cocoons and rebuild it into drone brood.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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