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Thread: Oxalic Acid

  1. #21
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by cg3 View Post
    A Beesource member posted this video on OA vapor:
    http://youtu.be/ALHz4B1vqKo
    Nice vid. Does not scale though.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    I use it to clean my top bars, Perfectly legal.
    the adees were using it to clean their top bars also, and they have better lawyers than we can afford, and the government fined them.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    the adees were using it to clean their top bars also, and they have better lawyers than we can afford, and the government fined them.
    They were using a lot more than just plain oxalic acid. I have never heard of a state taking the time to pursue charges on someone for just oxalic acid.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #24
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    Millbury, MA, USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Yeah, never heard of putting OA on shop towels

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    I have done an outside burn with it and it works just fine.......
    Not sure what an "outside burn" is . . .

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    They were using a lot more than just plain oxalic acid. I have never heard of a state taking the time to pursue charges on someone for just oxalic acid.
    http://orsba.proboards.com/index.cgi...int&thread=785


    MDA Concludes Enforcement Action with Honey Producer
    Minnesota Ag Connection - 12/06/2006

    The Minnesota Department of Agriculture (MDA) recently concluded an enforcement action against Adee Honey Farms, of Bruce, South Dakota. Adee Honey Farms produces honey and in 2006 had several thousand bee colonies in Minnesota.

    Adee Honey Farms paid a $14,000 settlement penalty to the MDA for illegal use of pesticides within bee colonies to control Varroa mites and for making a false statement to MDA inspectors. MDA learned of the pesticide misuse in June 2006 during a random pesticide use inspection at two Adee Honey Farm bee colonies in Yellow Medicine County. MDA inspectors noticed blue paper towels in several hives. Follow-up laboratory testing showed that the towels contained oxalic acid and fluvalinate.

    The U.S. Environmental Protection (EPA) has not registered any pesticide with the active ingredient oxalic acid for use in bee hives. Additionally, the only fluvalinate pesticide EPA has registered for use in bee hives is found in the pesticide product Apistan. This product is available in the form of strips, not paper towels. Apistan strips, however, are more costly than the liquid fluvalinate pesticide that MDA determined Adee Honey Farm used. The owner and operator of Adee Honey Farms told MDA investigators he was aware that the pesticides he used were illegal and not for use in bee hives.

    State and federal law requires that pesticides must be used in accordance with label directions, and this includes proper use sites. Pesticide label directions and restrictions are designed to protect human health and the environment, so it is imperative that users of these products read and follow the labels. Because the pesticides Adee Honey Farms used were not labeled for use in bee hives, no use directions and human or environmental precautions were on the labels.

    $14,000 was letting them off easy, the law says up to 10,000 per occurance per location. don't forget the reason that they can get you for using it is that it at one time was registered as a pesticide and thus has a label. and as they say above yes they were using those magical blue towels

    I don't really care if people use chemicals illegaly, I just want them to know ahead of time, that way i don'tt mind to hearing them squeal if they get caught.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    don't forget the reason that they can get you for using it is that it at one time was registered as a pesticide and thus has a label.
    Oxalic Acid was once registered as a Pesticide? I didn't know that. How long ago was that, and why was it removed as an approved product?
    To everything there is a season....

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    I presume he is referring to Fluvalinate which is the active ingredient in Apistan. I haven't heard of any state taking the effort to pursue oxalic use. It's use is so widespread and Honey has never been shown to have elevated oxalic residues above what naturally occurs.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    I don't treat with supers on. I also don't treat "often". I worry about the PH of the hive. To me, treating of any sort should be part of an overall approach to pest and disease management. I don't believe there is a single, silver bullet, any more than I think we can take one shot and be immune from any pest or disease.
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    Oxalic Acid was once registered as a Pesticide? I didn't know that.
    it was registered as a pesticide(had a label) for something other than bees, I posted it on beesource a long time ago, if I get time I'll see if I can find it again. The label was called a red label(i never could find out what that was, but suspected that it is obsolete but never done away with). but a label allows them to go after you.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...bel#post613980

    post #26 it has a label as a toilet bowl cleaner

    so maybe camero7 is correct, you can clean your hive with it.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    http://orsba.proboards.com/index.cgi...int&thread=785


    Adee Honey Farms paid a $14,000 settlement penalty to the MDA for illegal use of pesticides within bee colonies to control Varroa mites
    Paying the fines still sounds cheaper than using the "approved" mite control stuff they sell in this country. Not that I approve of illegal activities, but when the cheapest "approved" miticide in this country costs $5.00 per hive to treat each year I can understand why some folks want to venture off the approved path for other options.

    So the dribble method is the hardest on the bees and the vapor method is hardest on the beekeeper? Interesting enough.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned that OA is not approved for use in the US as a miticide. Not that it doesn't work - it is approved in other countries, including I believe, Canada. Please remember that honey is a food product and contamination is a no no.
    Hop Guard isn't approved in most states but is in some so apparently its OK to use by the US? Obviously all of us strive to ensure our honey never gets contaminated but I don't think the USDA or lobby organizations care that much about contamination. In fact I believe they are OK with a certain level of toxins in our food so long as its not too high.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAC View Post
    In fact I believe they are OK with a certain level of toxins in our food so long as its not too high.
    they would probably be happier if you didn't refer to them as toxins residual pesticides sounds better. I do like the toxins though.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    Yeah, there's a fancy term for bug poop, too.
    Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid

    if anybody is interested there has been an ongoing discussion and allen dick has been running trials and posting on his web site. I copied randy olivers comments on the latest tests that allen has done. I haven't followed it except I think he has done 5 non dribble treatements, and just did a non acid treatment to see if any mites are left.

    Thanks Allen.
    May I make a few suggestions to make your page a bit more user friendly.
    1. Label the axes of your charts.
    2. Use the same time scales in your text and in the charts. I have to take
    time to try to locate your treatment dates (e.g., Dec 23) on the x axis.
    3. I'm able to figure out the colored triangles on the x axes of the
    charts as being treatments, but it would be helpful to label.
    4. Do you have any reason to think that Apivar is an effective treatment
    in a winter cluster? The label doesn't mention temperature. I'm not sure
    whether there is enough movement of bees in the cluster to properly
    distribute the active ingredient.
    5. Number the charts so that we can refer to them by number.

    Re the four individual charts:

    Hive 1 (950 cumulative)--the treatments appeared to be effective, although
    even after three consecutive treatments of broodless colonies, there were
    still mites.

    Hive 2 (3000 cumulative)--the treatments were considerably less effective.

    Hive 3 (4400 cumulative)--treatments effective overall, but it took 5
    vaporizations, three while the colony was broodless!

    Hive 4 (3300)--treatments less effective. One certainly couldn't count
    upon a single vaporization, especially if brood were present, at giving
    effective mite control.

    Hive 5 (1100)--what the heck was that single high spike from? Treatments
    were effective.

    Hive 6 (1700)--again, treatments not particularly effective.

    Bottom line, it still took 5 time-consuming treatments to scour out most of
    the mites, which surprises me, since three of the treatments were given
    during the broodless period.

    Your average mite drop per hive post Dec 23 was 106 mites. Not counting
    the remaining living mites, that means that at least around a 0.5%
    infestation remained post Dec 23. If half the remaining mites at Dec 23
    are still alive, that would suggest a 1% remaining infestation (would sure
    help if you could do some alcohol washes for confirmation).

    By comparison, in my own colonies, mite levels were lower than yours in the
    fall. I gave them a single oxalic dribble in November. In my tests for
    potential breeder queens in my own operation this spring, following four
    complete brood cycles, and with plenty of broodrearing, the average mite
    infestation rate was around 2% in the adult bees (range 0 - 8%).

    Comparison is difficult since you are using mite drop of dead mites,
    whereas I am using alcohol wash. You are blind as to the number of living
    mites, other than by extrapolation by the number dropping each day. I'm
    more interested in the number of live mites in my colony, rather than the
    number of dead.

    How much time and expense did the 5 vaporizations involve?

    --
    Randy Oliver
    Grass Valley, CA
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

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