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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    miami, florida, USA
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    18

    Default CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Hello.

    As you know, CCD is a major problem in the beekeeping world, and one of the culprits has been nicotine based pesticides. Does anyonew know if any urban (away from agriculture) beekeepers getting this disease?

    I'm asking this because if urban beekeepers are relativly unscathed, that would support that its something agriculturally based, like pesticides.

    Thanks.
    Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
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    4,954

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Google in the middle of Silicon Valley lost 75 of it's hives.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
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    3,430

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Unfortunately, even in an urban environment you are still not safe from the alleged detrimental effects of neonicotinoids. They are found extensively now in lawn care and garden products, and even found in many potting soils. Visit your local Lowe's or Home Depot some time and read the ingredients on the labels of packaged products in the garden center. They are found in almost everything, it's surprising.
    Last edited by Mike Gillmore; 03-30-2012 at 12:34 PM. Reason: sp
    To everything there is a season....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    499

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by dcerdeiras View Post
    hello.

    As you know, ccd is a major problem in the beekeeping world, and one of the culprits has been nicotine based pesticides.
    o rly?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
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    1,849

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Don't think anyone has linked CCD to neonics. And CCD appears to be dwindling - just like disappearing disease did in the past and there were no neonics then.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Alabaster, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    209

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Someone sent me this link just now.

    http://io9.com/5897793/two-of-the-mo...g-bee-die+offs

    Here is a quote:
    "They researchers discovered bees that had been dosed with thiamethoxam (another popular neonicotinoid) were more than twice as likely as untreated bees to die while away from the hive, due to what they describe as "homing failure." In other words, the thiamethoxam seems to impede the bees' navigational abilities. Computer simulations later suggested that these wayward bees were getting lost often enough to cause hive populations to crash."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,021

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    This is one of the problems though and why the causes of CCD are still so vague. Sure, bees dosed with thiamethoxam (another popular neonicotinoid) may be twice as likely to die. But I'd be pretty sure bees dosed with any insecticide will be twice as likely to die.

    The latest figures do show reported CCD to have waned a lot in the last 3 years. If it's neonicotinoid, CCD should have increased.

    Having said that, the results of certain research are that neonicotinoid exposure does weaken the bees and make them more susceptable to other ailments such as nosema.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    miami, florida, USA
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Ok, thanks for the info. Hopefully CCD does disapear.
    Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,693

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by dcerdeiras View Post
    Hello.

    As you know, CCD is a major problem in the beekeeping world, and one of the culprits has been nicotine based pesticides. Does anyonew know if any urban (away from agriculture) beekeepers getting this disease?

    I'm asking this because if urban beekeepers are relativly unscathed, that would support that its something agriculturally based, like pesticides.

    Thanks.
    CCD has been a problem for SOME beekeepers. IMO, not a major problem for beekeepers

    I may be wrong, but I believe there is a difference between "nicotine" and "neonicotinoid". Words matter.

    The problem seems to be environmental, not just agricultural. Though it does seem agriculturally related. It is also management related. "It is the culmination of everything that has happened to bees since Varroa first showed up." Dr. Maryanne Frazier, Penn State.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fort Myers, Florida, USA
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    I lost my best hive right before Christmas, and all the evidence pointed to CCD. The days prior, everything looked fine (I tend to have my coffee watching my backyard hives). The day I opened them up because there was no activity, I found the queen, about a dozen bees and virtually no brood. Lots of stores available. My mentor also couldn't find evidence of anything else. The robbing didn't start until late that afternoon, after I had ripped everything apart. I'm blocks from our little downtown, so I'm about as urban as you can get in our area.

    That suggests to me that urban areas are not "immune" to CCD.
    I started out as an opportunistic beekeeper. Now the bees keep me...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Millbury, MA, USA
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    1,849

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Usually with CCD there is brood left according to reports. Also, IMO CCD is way over diagnosed. Might have been good to take those bees and send them in for testing. Could have pointed you in the right direction. Nosema, virus, varroa, etc.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fort Myers, Florida, USA
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Camero7, there was brood, just very little (conservative Carniolans was suggested to me, as the hive was Carni). And how to explain everything looking normal until that day? According to every seasoned beekeeper I spoke to about it (I called everyone I know) they suggested CCD, as no one could come up with another explanation. Our inspector couldn't make it out to me for at least a week (I called him too) so he didn't see it, but of course asked me if I saw this or that, and there was no evidence of anything. If it had been varroa, or something else, at least I could have learned something from it. That was the most frustrating part, that I couldn't take a lesson away from the experience. I would have preferred to lose that hive to something that could have been explained, therefore knowing how to prevent it in the future.
    I started out as an opportunistic beekeeper. Now the bees keep me...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
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    1,849

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    I wasn't trying to call you out. Hope you didn't feel that. There is too much of that lately. it was a suggestion. Even when I think I know what killed a hive I scoop a few bees and send them to Maryland. Well worth the trouble. I've been wrong more often that I've been right with my diagnosis and it certainly helps in future planning.
    Good luck

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    here's some research suggesting use of neonics on corn result in it being in HFCS whick lots of folks use for feed
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pre..._utmk=89621787

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,849

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    check the other thread.
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...that-Kill-Bees

    This study sucks

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: CCD and Urban Beekeepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    Unfortunately, even in an urban environment you are still not safe from the alleged detrimental effects of neonicotinoids. They are found extensively now in lawn care and garden products, and even found in many potting soils. Visit your local Lowe's or Home Depot some time and read the ingredients on the labels of packaged products in the garden center. They are found in almost everything, it's surprising.
    Is there a list somewhere of common neonicotinoids? I'd like to avoid potting soil that contains them. What am I looking for on the label?

    EDIT: I found a list in the Wkipedia article on neonicotinoids.

    Brian
    Last edited by Benthic; 04-07-2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Found a list

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