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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Landing, NJ, USA
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Walnut tree trap-out

    And assuming that they don't start a queen cell the instant they see the frame of brood the new hive will have a queen raised from an egg from the queen in the tree (or the queen herself) and thus the tree hive genetics are maintained. How's that for a run on sentence?
    Bill

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,838

    Default Re: Walnut tree trap-out

    Whiskers...They may very well start a queen cell when they see the unsealed brood in the trap. (especially if the trap is not very near the brood nest) If they do, no problem, if the feral queen comes into the trap and you move her, (either on the frames, or by moving the entire trap) the queen cell will be destroyed. Any new bees will have the feral queen genetics. If they start a queen cell, and you don't get the feral queen, then the queen from that cell will have the genetics of the hive you took the frame of unsealed brood from.

    The feral source will start a queen cell, more likely several queen cells, just as soon as they think they are queenless. In Spring and early Summer, when the queen is laying lots of eggs for colony buildup, there are normally lots of viable eggs for the colony to make a queen from. As summer progresses, the queen cuts down on laying eggs, and the feral source may not realize the queen is gone until there are no viable eggs to make themselves a queen. I don't like to take the queen, and let the feral source make themselves a new one, unless the colony is still building. If you take the queen, that will slow the buildup of the feral colony, and you won't be able to take as many starts. It may take a day or two for the feral colony to realize they are queenless. Then a day or so to build the queen cell. Then sixteen days for the queen to hatch, a couple of days to get bred, three or four days to start laying, so you have lost 30 plus days of colony replacement and build up. So if you take the queen, pull back on trapping, or you may wind up eliminating the colony. If you are wanting to eliminate the colony, take the queen, and this starts the process of weakening the feral source until it can no longer sustain itself.

    cchoganjr

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Landing, NJ, USA
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Walnut tree trap-out

    Cleo- thank you for replying to an amateur.

    My thought was that if they didn't start a queen cell right away in six days or so everything on the frame of brood would be too old to make a queen. If the feral queen comes out and lays in the trap then if a cell exists on the donor frame you could then remove it and make a nuc with indeterminate genetics. From then on the trap should provide its own brood and could be managed frame by frame and potentially produce a bunch of nucs with the feral genetics. As the frames were removed one would want to be careful not to take the feral queen to avoid stressing the feral hive. True?
    Bill

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,838

    Default Re: Walnut tree trap-out

    True.. If you know that there are no queen cells from the unsealed brood that you introduced. After six days if she lays and you take the frame, and if they start a queen cell, then the egg would be from the feral queen. You would have her genetics.

    Yes, if you leave the trap in place, and she starts laying, then you could take multiple frames with unsealed brood, and enough bees to start a new nuc and you would have her genetics. You will need enough bees to make the new queen cell and to tend the brood that you take.

    Yes if you want to keep the feral queen in place, you need to check carefully to make sure you are not moving her. If so, you set back the feral colony by 30+ days, and the possibility of elimination does come into play.

    Any time a colony is weakened, and remains queenless for an extended time period of time, you are inviting wax moths and small hive beetles to grab a foothold.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 04-12-2012 at 05:11 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Landing, NJ, USA
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Walnut tree trap-out

    Thank you sir- I declare you to be the guru of trapouts.
    Bill

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