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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Dunnville, Ky, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    I have 2 of the 10 frame grow out boxes from Mannlake for the Medium half frames. I plan on putting them on top of the hives to let the bees draw out some of the frames to use in the mating nucs. I also ordered one of the double mating nuc boxes and 30 meduim half frames with foundation.

    My question is, when I get ready to populate the nucs, Can I smoke the nurse bees up through a queen excluder and then take out the needed frames from the box?

    I may be wrong, but this seems easier and with less equipment than some methods I've seen on the net and youtube that require shaking and/or wetting the bees and so on.. then populating the nucs.

    I'm a first year beek with 4 hives. I have set aside 2 of my stronger hives just for honey production and will try not to mess with them other than splitting or pulling a nuc from them to help control swarming if needed.

    For the other 2 hives, My plans for this year is to learn everything I can, including grafting to raise my own queens. My goals are to go into winter with 10 new hives and nucs with an extra queen or two for back up during the summer and fall. I understand that I will more than likely raise more junk queens, kill more bees, and do more harm than good this year.. But atleast next year I will know more on what not to do than I do now.

    Feel free to put me in my place, just do it nicely please... lol

    Thank you for your time,
    Eric

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    3,865

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Ambition is good and you will need to study hard to overcome your inexperience because your plan is challenging. Any time in beekeeping when it seems like the recommended method is hard, it may be hard for a reason. When you smoke bees up into your nucs, how will you determine that it is nurse bees successfully smoked away from the brood? They are genetically hardwired to stay with and protect brood. They will be the last to leave the brood. You will get older bees less well suited for the duties in the nucs. Take frames of brood out of you hive and brush the adhering nurse bees into your nucs. I bet you are worried about getting the queen? Then put your mating nucs under a queen excluder and place a full deep over the excluder. Now shake the frames onto the excluder. They will filter down thru. If neccessary hurry them up with some cool smoke. That is not so hard and I think you will find it works fine. If others give you advice you like better, I defer to them. Good luck with your endeavor.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warrior, Alabama
    Posts
    1,067

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Good plan Vance! I'll be using that.
    Old Guy in Alabama

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Dunnville, Ky, USA
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Thank you Vance G!!!

    One of my worries is getting the queen.. The other is getting drones from the parent hive which would get moved to the mating yard. Seems the way you explained it would take care of both issues. Two of the grow out boxes pushed together would be the same size as a standard hive body so I could set one deep hive body with the queen excluder under it on top of the 2 boxes.

    I have another beekeeper that I can set up a mating yard within 1 miles of his yard. I plan to hatch the queens here in the nucs then move them 9 miles to the other yard for mating. As long as I keep a queen excluder over the nuc opening, I will not have to worry about drones slipping in the nucs (I hope) while they are here.

    Again, Thank you for your time and reply,
    Eric

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    I am going to install a few packages right onto a 10 frame deep box-divided to accomodate 20 mini frames. When that is filled, I will add a second box, also with mini frames divided into a quad. When those frames are mostly drawn, I will graft some queen cells onto one frame per quad section ,Get them started in a starter hive, then arrange the frames in each quad section with feed, capped brood and a queen cell frame. Using this as a finisher hive using the cloake board method. When the cells are capped, I can ether just lift it off the quad and place it elcewhere for using as a mini mating nuc-or remove and install each section in it's own mini nuc for mating.

    Having the bottom box drawn out in minis allows me to remove frames of brood to place in the quad-drawing up the good young nurse bees. Hee hee-right into my trap!
    Hope you can follow that!
    (I'll mark my queen at time of installation for easy detection and placement/confinement)

    This would be the bottom deep(20 frames)


    Second box-quad:


    Feeders for quad:


    Single mating nucs(Holds five frames)


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    My box's are all deep, but my frame with the queen cells is shallow. Here you can see the difference between a deep frame and the grafting frame. Just enough room if you want to protect the cells with cages.
    When making your shallow mini frames for grafting, just flip over the frame bottom so the grove is facing down to accomodate your cell cups. These hair roller caged don't fit these cups, but you get the idea:






    I will be new at grafting and don't expect all of them to take. Will probably get 2 out of 5 in the beginning, but you can do as many or as few as you like-possibly culling at some point.
    Last edited by Lauri; 03-06-2012 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    ShamRock Plastic 1/2 Frame Deep These 1/2 frame length deeps makes good over wintering nuc

    <img src="http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...WVlbi5qcGc.jpg">

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Cool pic. Where do you get those plastic 1/2 frames?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Quote Originally Posted by Velbert View Post
    Too bad it's 85 bucks, plus shipping. I'd love to buy the frames separate.

    *pouts*

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    I went to the manufactureres web site yesterday. They have the frames for $1.25 each. Did not get a shipping price, I assume they will email me with the cost. I like the black deep frames too and they do not say if the frames for sale seperatly are deep or shallow, natural or black.
    heres the link:
    http://www.shamrocksbees.com/beekeep...-box.php?pid=4

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    I went to the manufactureres web site yesterday. They have the frames for $1.25 each. Did not get a shipping price, I assume they will email me with the cost. I like the black deep frames too and they do not say if the frames for sale seperatly are deep or shallow, natural or black.
    heres the link:
    http://www.shamrocksbees.com/beekeep...-box.php?pid=4
    Thanks for the link, I thought the company went the way of the dodo. Since their other website is a spam portal site now.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    Oh oh..Glad I did not give them my credit card info! I'll be careful if they contact me-which they have not yet.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Smoking bees up into half frame grow out box to populate mating nucs??

    I think you misunderstood... They had another website... shamrock-s or something like that.... I think they lost it from expiring payment/etc and now it's a portal site...

    As far as I know... the people in general are legit.... but I have never ordered anything from them.

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