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  1. #1
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    Default Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I've noticed some differences, a bit of confusion, and a lot of arguements concerning beekeeping methodologies, personal strategies, and in defining certain terms. Here is how I perceive things. Please correct me if I am wrong and please add to the discussion.

    1. Large cell worker comb is un-natural, unless the bees are building it.
    2. Foundationless, natural comb, is not necessarily small cell.
    3. Small cell may or may not reduce Varroa, but is also un-natural unless the bees are building it.
    4. TF (treatment free) means exactly what it says- no treatments on any level, but may include physical alteration of hive & hive components.
    5. Organic treatments (or light treating) includes essential oils, OA, cinnamon (for ants), & thymol- anything found in nature.
    6. Commercial treatments (or heavier treating) includes pharmaceuticals or man made chemicals.
    7. Beekeeping methodologies vary between climate and region. So therefore, it is possible that 2 people doing different things can both be correct, as long as both methods produce similar and positive results.
    8. There are several factors that may or may not affect overall bee health, genetics, longevity, and etc. where scientific studies are either non existent or inconclusive. These would include using high fructose corn syrup as feed, chemicals in OSB/Plywood (such as glues & formaldehyde), chemicals in paints & stains, feeding with white sugar (white sugar is bleached), using wax foundation, pesticides, swarm prevention measures, and in using certain treatments whether organic or artificial. These can not only affect kept bees, but local/feral hives as well through breeding and direct contact.
    9. Checker boarding- when to do it and how it is done properly.


    Thoughts? Comments? Arguments?
    Last edited by Cyan; 03-19-2015 at 05:49 PM.
    Zones 6A & 6B

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Knox, Pa. USA
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    1,519

    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    You forgot #9. We all know what opinions are like, and we all have one. Unless severe crones has facilitated the removal. So don't sweat the small stuff.

    And that's Mine

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    7,479

    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I have met one or two severe crones, but never thought them qualified to perform surgery! Or perhaps you were referring to Crohns?





    Cyan, if those are real issues of concern to you, perhaps eight (or nine) threads would be more appropriate for a real discussion.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  4. #4
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    Verde Valley, Arizona,United States
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    None of it is natural. unless they are in a tree and you only grab a piece of comb at a time

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    By natural cell I mean foundationless, natural comb.

    On the subject of Opinions & Crohns; I am touching neither of these either physically or figuratively. And no, it's not so much my personal concern on each issue that is a factor. It's based on the concerns I have when reading forums & articles where people say something on the lines of "I'm 30 years TF" in one post, then in a separate post talk about essential oils or their OA vaporizer. Another example is claiming natural beekeeping while feeding corn syrup. For us somewhat 'educated' new beeks and intermediates- this causes a lot of confusion..
    Zones 6A & 6B

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I am just a newbie, but your basic definitions generally look okay to me. BUT, it is the details of these definitions where the internet fist fights break out.

    From past experience, a lot of beeks don't want a detailed definition of these important terms. An example:

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...-TF-beekeeping

    Until detailed definitions are generally accepted by the beekeeping community, we'll just continue talking past one another.
    --shinbone
    (4th year, Zone 5b, 11/12 hives survived W'14)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Walker, Alabama, USA
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I am not a "joiner". For me beekeeping is a solitary endeavor so other people's definitions don't mean anything. Who cares what you call stuff? Just do what works for you and your bees and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks or claims they think. Keeping bees is supposed to be a pleasant experience, not a contest.

    I offer advice when I think I know an answer. If somebody else doesn't agree, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Why fan the flames?

    JMO

    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper & Rusty's Bees ( LC and T)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    RHF: I see your point, but I rarely fan the flames on purpose. I'm more of a smother the fire type of person. But your comment makes perfect sense, as I also tend to do things alone. Being new however, just has me asking a ton of questions and annoying a lot of people in the process I think.
    Zones 6A & 6B

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    47,935

    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."--William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Verde Valley, Arizona,United States
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I am also new at beekeeping. But I have noticed every one has there own way. But when you start to ponder on that. They really do most of it the same. Just at different approaches. Did that make since? Not at all

  11. #11
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    hinesville ga usa
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I think you have it about right. The vast majority of folks on the forum make posts to help others that have questions and are truly giving back for the help they have received from others on and off the forum, and they feel a kind of kinship to people that have like interests. Our beekeeping areas, climates, flows, goals and resources differ so much that we sometimes just can't understand why someone is doing things a certain way, but all in all I think we resolve our differences better than any group I know, certainly better than those that try to run this country.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Colorado Springs, CO United States
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan View Post
    Thoughts? Comments? Arguments?
    We are going to beat the dead horse again. I am with Rusty Hill Farms
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat :)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Massillon, Ohio
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    That's a good list Cyan. Looks like you have a pretty good handle on things.

    I would also add "Checkerboarding" to the list as a constant source of confusion and debate. That term and procedure seems to be tossed about very loosely, and at times is inserted into beekeeping methods incorrectly.
    To everything there is a season....

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I'm not happy with the way our country is being run either, and I have bad feelings all around on this economy. My bosses were talking today about some coal fired power plants being mothballed and some very large distribution projects being put on the back burner due to the cheaper oil trap the middle east has us in. I suppose to some degree, my friends & family would consider me to be a prepper of sorts, although I can't possibly prep to the degree needed to survive the worst of anything. My average income minus school loans, a car payment, rent, child support. etc. just doesn't leave much extra.

    This is another reason though why I want to work with bees- along with gardening, canning, dehydrating, hunting, fishing, farming, etc. It's also why I'm going out of my way to help little brother out on his farm. I figure that every little bit will help if I were to lose my job or worse. These are definitely uncertain times, at least for some of us. I am so looking forward to working with bees though. lol I wanted this since I was little.
    Zones 6A & 6B

  15. #15
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    Verde Valley, Arizona,United States
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I understand that originally only monks raised bees and actually carried them around on travels. This helped them stay at piece with all the problems even of those times. Its something to do with the hum helps meditation

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    I added checker boarding to the list. I have read a little on it and think I understand the concept, but isn't this like pyramiding frames in a hive that has no excluder, only vertically instead of laterally?

    I don't know much about monks, except that a group founded St. Vincent's College over 150 years ago, not too far from here. They were well known for their stone ground bread and beer that unfortunately, I have never tried. Love to be able to meditate though- people like me have a really hard time calming their nerves. Anxiety.
    Zones 6A & 6B

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    After I purchased Walt Wright's manuscript and read through it a couple of times I finally grasped the concept of checkerboading for swarm control and nectar management. I had been hearing many different variations on the checkerboarding method and found a lot of inconsistencies.

    Walt can probably do a great job trying to explain it in a condensed version, but it basically is a late winter process, and does NOT interfere with the brood nest at all. Boxes are placed above the broodnest with alternating frames in each box of honey filled combs and empty drawn comb. The bees will work up into these boxes as they expand their broodnest upward in the spring and very little additional manipulation is needed.

    The empty drawn comb gives the bees open lanes to move upward into as they expand the brood nest, and honey frames on each side provide food as they go. As they consume the honey it opens up more cells for brood.

    There is much more to it, but the main thing is that the brood nest is left untouched and the bees expand the brood nest up into checkerboarded boxes. I've seen quite a few examples where beekeepers are discussing "checkerboarding" (alternating) brood frames with empty frames in an entire box.
    To everything there is a season....

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Elkton, Giles, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Beekeeping Methodology, Definitions, and Repeatedly Beating a Dead Horse

    Mike G.'s comments above are of interest to me. I do not normally get involved in philosophical threads. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on those subjects, and my opinion is not worth anymore than the next guys.

    But I have a vested interest in checkerboarding - not that there is anything in it for me. I promote CB for other beekeepers. Have recently changed my approach from swarm prevention to increased honey production. It turns out that the increased production, a side effect of CB, is more valuable than the small gains of preventing repro swarms. Application of the concepts can reliably increase honey production by at least double the amount of standard management.

    Have been working on a condensed version of my presentation to be added here on beesource in Point of View. It's already there but got garbled in the transfer. As soon as we get it straightened out, will open a thread to announce its location.

    Thanks, Mike
    Walt

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