Beekeeping is a very cheap hobby

[Dynasty]

Geesh, i thought that spending all the money i did on my soon to be first year, was spent wisely. But apparently i spent way more than i needed too. I'm way over .10$

But i now have everything i need for 6 hives in my first year.

[Barry]

I am just learning about woodworking, but I believe one needs a jointer to plain downs the edges of the scrap so you can join (glue) them together.

Not completely true. Another way to glue up boards of various thickness is to "biscuit join" the boards. Say if you set the biscuit joiner to 5/16" (this being the center of the cut for the biscuit), you just need to always cut the slots using the outside finish of the board. If this is done, the biscuits will align the boards all flush on the outside (finish side) and leave the unevenness to the inside. Does this make sense?

[Nabber86]

SNL is correct. You can deduct hobby expenses, you just cant show a loss and you are limited to simple expenses that are easy to prove (no equipment depreciation, or such).

Case in point. If I "win" $500 dollars in a BBQ contest, the contest organizer sends me a 1099-MISC form along with the check. This needs to be reported as "other income" when I file taxes. The problem is, I ususally spend more than $500 on entry fees, meat, beer, and gas. OK I probably cant deduct the beer, but entry fees, gas, and the meat that I cook are all deductable. You just have to keep legit receipts.

The same is true with honey sales. If you sell $500 worth of honey as a hobbiest you are supposed to report it as income (even if it was strictly cash under the table). You can deduct some of the expenses that went into producing the honey. Although in this case probably only the cost of the plastic squeeze bear bottles and caps.

You just cant do anything stupid like trying to deduct a $1000 honey extractor that you bought from the $500 income, and claim a $500 loss.

[quevernick]

Or you can just glue 2 boards together and then stagger them a bit so they overlap when you screw them together on the corners. Here are some pictures of 8 frame medium boxes built entirely out of scrap pallet wood:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1159319...eat=directlink

[Mr. C]

I was of the understanding that like you said you can take itemized deduction for some things under hobby (equipment costs have to be spread over the expected life of the machine I believe), BUT for many people after they calculate out itemized deductions it ends up that a standard deduction often times is greater than the itemized (obviously varies from person to person). Because of that you end up claiming all of your income and none of the deductions (because you take a standard deduction). If you run it as a business for tax purposes you can deduct your expenditures from your gross cash flow and only claim profit as income. That means for most people you pay less. I also heard/read (I'm should begin with I'm not a CPA or taxpro) that if you claim an operating loss more than a year or two the IRS will bump you back to hobby status and your stuck trying for itemized expenses.

I know last year I tried itemized deductions, but the standard deduction was still better so I just wasted a bunch of time.

[Acebird]

You just cant do anything stupid like trying to deduct a $1000 honey extractor that you bought from the $500 income, and claim a $500 loss.

or bee equipment, bees, or tools, clothing, or rent, power and utilities, yada, yada, yada.

You can claim anything you want on your taxes. Should you get audited you will get an education on the grey areas.

[snl]

You can claim anything you want on your taxes. Should you get audited you will get an education on the grey areas.

AND on the not so grey areas!!! What kind of cigarettes do you smoke? That's right, smoking in prison is no longer allowed!

Best bet, get a CPA to do your taxes. The hassle is just not worth it.....

[Mr. C]

Correction, get a good CPA to do your taxes. I ponied up 240bucks 2 years ago (no hobby/business expenditures, just a simple return) and did better myself with taxact, that guy was a waste of money.

[Kieck]

Or you can just glue 2 boards together ...

Glue, biscuit and glue, plane and glue ... where do you get or how do you make free glue?

I think the spirit of the thread is good -- a beginner could get into beekeeping with minimal expense if that beekeeper was willing and able to 1) put a fair amount of time into scrounging, 2) had some experience with woodworking and metalworking and sewing, 3) was fortunate enough to come by "free bees" (or was prepared and willing to take the risk of cutting some out, but that was or picking up a swarm still leaves some risk as to the quality and nature of the bees one gets), 4) had enough self restraint to not purchase all the other gadgets that go along with getting into beekeeping, and 5) was really determined to not make much monetary investment in beekeeping.

Most beginners can hit a happy medium, I think. Spend enough to buy some equipment and bees, but not buy everything at the beginning.

[Capricorn]

Didn't read all the pages yet, but I wanted to say that I think catching a swarm or doing a cutout is a bit intimidating for someone starting bee keeping. Last year was my third year in the hobby, and I did both of those things. It was great, I decided I would never buy bees again (except if I wanted particular genetics..), but without experience it would be overly intimidating to do those things. A swarm trap (in a nuc or an 8 frame deep or something) might be good middle ground I guess..

[snl]

Mr C....
You went back and redid your taxes using taxact from two years ago and did better yourself? $240 is not bad for a Fed/St return. The CPA pays for software, rent, utilities, (expensive clothing) etc. and is required to attend and pay for required continued education classes yearly......

[Acebird]

Didn't read all the pages yet, but I wanted to say that I think catching a swarm or doing a cutout is a bit intimidating for someone starting bee keeping.

Well, OK. What part of stealing honey from stinging insects was not intimidating for someone starting bee keeping. I admit I have yet to do either catching a swarm or a cut out but what I have read capturing swarms from a tree is the least likely to get stings. Once you hive them and they burn off the honey they consumed the chances go up.

[Nabber86]

Thanks to Barry and quevernick for the woodworking tips. I may have to try that, but I am still looking for an excuse to buy more equipment (woodworking being such a cheap hobby as it is ).

-------------------

Back to the original point of the thread. I would like to see some data from the honeybee equipment suppliers (Mann Lake, Brush Mnt., Etc.) as to what a typical beginner spends on their hobby. I am sure they track those numbers pretty closely and know the spending habits of their target customers. This is just a complete shot in the dark, but I would bet the initial dollar figure would be right around $500 (cost of a couple of hives and some basic hardware, no frills).

[Acebird]

The people that don't buy equipment will skew your data. You will get typical customer data not typical beginner data.

[Specialkayme]

I said I netted $5,000

Maybe I wasn't clear in the point I was trying to make, as I'm very clear on what "net" as opposed to "gross" means.

My point was that while you made $5k, you still had several expenses in the process. You did, in fact, spend more than a dime to get there. That is what the topic of this thread was about: spending very little money to start up. You spent quite a bit of money to start up, you just made it back and then some.

Labor don't count - IT'S A HOBBY -

Not when you are doing a profit/loss sheet, or adding up what your "net gain" was.

Hobbies don't involve financial sheets. Side businesses do. Labor counts in side businesses.

[Nabber86]

The people that don't buy equipment will skew your data.

No kidding? I wasnt talking about unquantifiable non-buyers. I was specifically talking about people who buy at a store (or on-line). And there must be a lot of buyers, or the stores would not be in business.

If you want to talk about skewness and statistics, the amount spent per hobby beekeeper (including buyers and non-buyers alike) is obvioulsy a bell shaped curve. My guess is that complete non-buyers are more than 2 standard deviations to the left. A combination of buying and scrounging what one can is probably right in the middle of the field.

This whole thread reminds me of talking about gas mileage. When you get a large group of people together in a discussion, there is a natural tendency to inflate mpg numbers. Just as when you get a large group of people together talking about how much money they save by DIY, there is a tendency for exageration (or at least not properly accounting for all costs).

Anyway after all this, I think we can safely say that NOBODY really keeps bees for free (as you claimed in the first post of this thread).

[Acebird]

And again I didn't claim that but you can see what you want to see as you usually do.

[Nabber86]

It is the only hobby that I know of where you literally do not have to spend one dime to get into.

Must be that reading comprehension thing again.

[Acebird]

Labor counts in side businesses.

In small proprietorships if you don't pay yourself it does not count as a business expense. If you take on employees then it counts. In a hobby it never counts. You may loose interest for not getting paid for your time but that is a different story.

[Capricorn]

Well, OK. What part of stealing honey from stinging insects was not intimidating for someone starting bee keeping.

The part where they come all ready for you in a nice screened in box, or in a small nuc hive where all you need to do is transfer frames.

Cutouts aren't for beginners I don't think at all. You have to remove wild comb and rubber band it into a frame, while dealing with the thousands of stinging insects who think there current home is OK and don't understand why you are tearing it down.

Swarms are (most of the time) great and easy and simple and safe but I believe most beginners would still feel more intimidated by them when they could just pick them up in a pre-packaged box instead.