Beekeeping is a very cheap hobby

[Acebird]

Birdwatching comes to mind. That's a hobby that is enjoyed by millions of people and requires nothing more than watching birds, if one chooses.

First off, I agree with your title wording. Birdwatching is not much of a hobby if you are limited to your kitchen window. Typically it requires traveling and traveling is not cheap by anyone's standards.

[snl]

SK......
He said he "netted about 5k" .............that's pure profit as net profit is what's left over after all expenses are deducted................

[Nabber86]

I have a question about this free "scrap lumber" that people keep mentioning. Where is this coming from? I did a little searching on Craigslist and Freecycle and found a lot of pallets and odd-sized scrap piles that people were giving away or selling (cheap, but not free). Sawmills were mentioned, but those are non-existent in my neck of the woods (because of lack of woods).

I actually bought a really nice table saw on Craigslist this week. Old school, cast iron deck, belt and motor drive. It's a work of art itself and I got it for an unbelievable price. So now I can start making woodenware from scrap, right?

Oh wait. I notice the pallets and scrap are all different sizes, especially the thicknesses. I guess I will have to by a plainer/jointer to make my free woodenware now.

[D Semple]

How much was the equipment that you need to properly do a cutout?

Some cutouts don't require much equipment (a ladder, a multi-tool, and a box to put the bees in) but others will require much more (scafolding, permits, a truck, gas, ect.).

Even if you had the equipment given to you, how much was the labor involved in removing them?

To say you made $5k your first year from doing work, sure. To say you didn't spend a dime to make that first $5k is a beast of a different color.

I said I netted $5,000

I grossed $10,465 - all in fees from 14 removals, 13 swarm catches, 4 removals farmed out to others, and $375 from bees sold.
Plus I have 15 strong hives (still alive) (Of the original 27 I caught or removed, I had 2 abscond, sold 5, combined 4, and have lost 1 over the winter so far)

Had about $2,000 in wooden ware and frame cost (I make all my own equipment)
2 home bee vacs (thx Robo) set me back about $200
I already owned the truck, ladders, and scaffolding but figured $1,000 towards their costs (I'm a commercial roofing contractor)
Misc other equipment maybe $500
Liability Insurance $685
Wife Tax about $1,500

Labor don't count - IT'S A HOBBY - But I probably put in something the neighborhood of 200 extra hours spread out over 3 months (all of it an absolute blast! http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/DSemple/Bees 2011/

My whole point is to show others you can at least breakeven your 1st year with a little ingenuity, IF you care to.

Don

[Acebird]

I guess I will have to by a plainer/jointer to make my free woodenware now.

Bees don't care what the outside looks like and they will take care of the inside.

Watch the DIY network. There has to be 20 tons of lumber a week going into the landfill, all good lumber. You couldn't put a dent in all the lumber wasted making bee equipment.

[Daniel Y]

I agree with Ace. I could start beekeeping for nothing. I didn't but I could. What I did spend money on is now worth nearly 8 times what I spent. That does in fact go in the asset column. I did not have to spend any money. I chose to. some things simply where not worth the effort. Making frames for example.
I could also use equipment that is not mine, and it woudl hardly be considered "Milking" I get invited to use other peoples equipment all the time. It is called teaching a class. In like manner I have an invitation to build a rocket mass heater that others will pay for. It is also considered teaching. I teach people how to use a wood lathe. and I can teach others how to make a beehive. in the process I will make one and keep it and never use one pieced of equipment or one tool I own in the process. I could require that the materials be supplied and actually ask for payment for my time. And I still get a free hive out of it.
I am actually pretty shocked of the claim that you could not start beekeeping at no cost. IT is pretty obvious to me that it can be done.

[D Semple]

Some of those swarms probably came from my yard!

Paul, I didn't catch any swarms over your way, but I have a removal lined up for April over on 223rd St. Be glad to let you have it, if you want to get some of your own bees back.


Don

[Rader Sidetrack]

Around here, standard 40"x48" four-way pallets that are in good condition are generally reused / returned. So the ones available for free are often damaged ones that are difficult to reclaim usable wood from. But those damaged pallets make decent free compost bins. Stand 4 on edge in a square, use unbent wire coat hangers to wire them together and fill er up!

Of more interest to me for reclaiming useful wood are oversize shipping frames for things like firewood splitters, riding mowers, etc. Those odd sized items are just scrap that the retailer has to pay to have hauled away. Check with places like Tractor Supply and independent mower retailers (not big box stores.) I have recovered a considerable amount of kiln dried 1x4's and 1x8's from such frames. If you can get multiple matching frames [over time], its easier to figure out a process for reusing the wood.

[Acebird]

I said I netted $5,000
Labor don't count - IT'S A HOBBY - But I probably put in something the neighborhood of 200 extra hours spread out over 3 months (all of it an absolute blast! http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/DSemple/Bees 2011/

My whole point is to show others you can at least breakeven your 1st year with a little ingenuity, IF you care to.

Don

Far from a hobby if you are getting liability insurance and pulling in 10K but anyway I like the IR photography. Did you buy that camera? What did you use?

[Kieck]

Birdwatching is not much of a hobby if you are limited to your kitchen window. -Acebird

Right. The same as waiting for all the stuff you need to get into beekeeping to show up at your doorstep isn't much of a hobby. The point here is that while you could get into beekeeping at minimal expense, it isn't typical and it likely isn't the best way to enter beekeeping as a hobby.

Those "free" sources of lumber that you go pick up? How much does it cost to go get them? Gov't figures 37 cents a mile to drive an average vehicle now. Same goes for going to pick up swarms, etcetera. Unless they show up on your doorstep (and that could happen), at least some minimal expense is likely to be incurred.

For a person starting out (and I know I will be labeled as one of those who lists costs that might not be necessary), I recommend buying woodenware, a veil, a smoker, a hive tool, and bees, as a minimum. I also recommend anticipating some additional expenses along the way. Replacement queens or even bees, maybe some feeding if the beekeeper worries about them, some of the gadgets that most of us in any hobby "have to have" when we discover them, and so on.

[Gypsi]

I figure my time is worth a minimum of $50 an hour. I have an old pallet out next to my driveway, came with rock on it last year, i was going to use it to make swarm traps. The nails are rusted in places..... I am not sure it is worth my time to take the thing apart. I bought a sheet of 3/8 plywood for tops and bottoms on last year's sub-par equipment. Anyone want this pallet?

And feeding is not optional during a drought / dearth. Weak hives that were not fed die in snap freezes.

[cg3]

This thread caused me to do a little math. Next year honey will be $47/lb.

[D Semple]

Far from a hobby if you are getting liability insurance and pulling in 10K but anyway I like the IR photography. Did you buy that camera? What did you use?

My original plan last spring was to just get 3 hives. Put myself on some swarms lists and I started getting removal calls. One thing led to another and it snowballed on me. Michael Bush and JPthebeeman helped me out.
Still consider it a hobby though as I’m probably only pulling in about $1.85 an hour!

The infrared camera is also from my regular job. It’s nice to use, but really completely unnecessary for removals, a $25 stethoscope is all a guy needs.

[Acebird]

Great, got one of those free.

Here is the oxymoron. You consider it a hobby. The IRS considers it a hobby too but you cannot claim any deductions but must claim 10K in income! Get a DBA, file your taxes, claim your income and claim all your expenses so your hobby costs you nothing.

*KEEP GOOD RECORDS don't run it like a hobby.

[Mr. C]

I definately am not getting into this hobby? (obsession is more accurate I think) for free. I build most of my own things, but I still have equipment costs etc. That being said, If you want to start counting time as a resource it's only fair that you count the pleasure gained from doing it in your cost too (economics opportunity cost yada yada). I'm definately way ahead there so far. Since everything takes time even belly button lint collecting that someone pointed out isn't free. I don't like that definition of free, it's not particularly useful. If I was stubborn enough and not as picky as I am I could start this hobby without outlaying any cash money. That is free to me. I'm not going to do it, but I could and I think that's the point.

[snl]

Here is the oxymoron. You consider it a hobby. The IRS considers it a hobby too but you cannot claim any deductions but must claim 10K in income!. *KEEP GOOD RECORDS don't run it like a hobby.

Not true Ace........if it's a hobby, hobby deductions cannot exceed income. If it's a business they can........but there are other rules on this..........

[Acebird]

if it's a hobby, hobby deductions cannot exceed income.

Could you show me what line that is on for a 1040? My accountant must have missed that one.

[snl]

Ace.....see below.........there is more on @ www.irs.gov. Very simplistically, you must report hobby income to the extent that exceeds hobby expenses.......but again there are other rules that suggest a hobby is business when certain other guidelines are met......too much to go into here........

What are allowable hobby deductions under IRC 183?
If your activity is not carried on for profit, allowable deductions cannot exceed the gross receipts for the activity.
Deductions for hobby activities are claimed as itemized deductions on Schedule A, Form 1040. These deductions must be taken in the following order and only to the extent stated in each of three categories:

• Deductions that a taxpayer may claim for certain personal expenses, such as home mortgage interest and taxes, may be taken in full.
• Deductions that don’t result in an adjustment to the basis of property, such as advertising, insurance premiums and wages, may be taken next, to the extent gross income for the activity is more than the deductions from the first category.
• Deductions that reduce the basis of property, such as depreciation and amortization, are taken last, but only to the extent gross income for the activity is more than the deductions taken in the first two categories.

[snl]

My accountant must have missed that one.

Time for a new accountant, preferably a CPA. If he / she missed that one, what else did they miss?

[Nabber86]

Bees don't care what the outside looks like and they will take care of the inside.

I am just learning about woodworking, but I believe one needs a jointer to plain downs the edges of the scrap so you can join (glue) them together. If you take apart a pallet, you end up with several pieces of (and I am guessing here) nominal 1" x 4" stock, certainly nothing wide enough to build a medium super. Hence you need a jointer. If the thickness of the stock actually ranges from 1/2" to 7/8", you need to plane the surfaces down to a uniform thickness. It's got nothing to do with making the boxes look pretty.