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  1. #321
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    I ordered two queens back in early spring. I have a very detailed e-mail chain with Victoria where I have asked for a refund and been ignored or it was blamed on "new hire" as to why they were not responding back to me. I literally have 11 e-mail requests into them asking for the queens or a refund andhave two responses back from them - so my claim is well covered. Should a mod need the documentation to verify my claim Russell has the customer service skills of a goat and that they appear to have made a decision to steal my money - I will be happy to forward my e-mail trains to them. Where I come from - keeping someone's money without supplying the good or service defines stealing.

    Edited to say that I went through my e-mail chains with them and had one response on 6/23/12 saying "We are still a bit behind in shipping but hopefully we can get them out in the next week or so." These queens were to be delivered early June - I was fine with them going out in July as I understand we don't control how many, or when, queens are available. However, no queens and no response until late August.

    My next response after numerous e-mails was from Victoria on 8/23/12 where she blames the lack of response on "While we were training the new staff the emails piled up too much for us to try to work with, so we are starting fresh." She also wrote "We have an operation in PA that can send your queens over to you. Let me know and I will transfer the info to that office." I told her I couldn't use the queens and wanted a refund as the queens were supposed to be delivered in early June. Have sent multiple e-mails (with the one today being pretty rude as I am about fed up) without any response since 8/23.

    So - in total - I have 13 different e-mails requesting info with them. Dates are 6/1, 6/6, 6/26, 6/26 (a different one), 7/26, 7/30, 8/21, 8/21 (duplicate on the chance the earlier one got "lost") 8/23 with a response from Victoria and a response back to her asking for the refund, 8/24, 8/27, and two on 9/11 with the last one being my rude e-mail.
    Last edited by DavidP2211; 09-11-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #322
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Quick update: Paypal, American Express, and Visa have a general policy of only allowing disputes for about 60 days after the transaction occurs (e.g., Russell charges you as soon as you pay so that is the transaction - you now have 60 days to claim a refund for not receiving the queens/nucs). Obviously, that policy flat doesn't cover a dispute when some scumball elects to not ship your bees as we typically are scheduled to receive those months after we order them.

    Regardless, I called American Express on Monday (which is how my Paypal payments are covered) and explained that I had ordered the queens in February and that this policy just flat doesn't work for a situation like this one. The rep asked how many times I had attempted to contact them requesting the bees/refund, etc. To my surprise, after a few minutes of explaining how the process of ordering bees works, the service rep came back with "you're right - we will make an exception for these queens". BINGO - the rep then credited my account for $118 which they will deduct from a future American Express payment to Russell. Granted, Russell can go back and try to dispute my dispute, but I have no idea how he could win. So bottom line - if you paid your Russell Paypal charge with a credit card - it is well worth bypassing Paypal to dispute the charge directly with the card company. Maybe I am being cynical, but Paypal flat out will not honor disputes greater than 60 days so that may be part of the reason Russell uses them.

    Finally, kudos to American Express for having great customer service reps.

  3. #323
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,137

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Well Done.

  4. #324
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ft. Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    543

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Well done is right and thanks for sharing. Finally a potential way to solve the problems.

  5. #325
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,981

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    I also believe it is illegal to charge a credit or debit card before a product is shipped. You might want to look into that as well. I have not seen the law myself, it is just commonly mentioned information on another group I belong to that does lots of buying selling and shipping.

    I woudl file a claim with pay pal, Visa etc. anyway and let them be the ones that refuse rather than just assume they will.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #326
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ft. Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    543

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Discover is working on my behalf. Don't know why we didn't go back to our Credit Cards to start with vs. paypal. I was afraid having paid as far back as 6/11 that I would be toast. Not so.. good luck everyone.

  7. #327
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Hopefully, many of us that have had our cash stolen by Russell can recover our money via our card carrier. Eventually, if enough of us make claims, the companies will refuse to process payments for Russell. However, I don't know the number of claims required for them to stop. In addition, I can't imagine that Paypal will continue to do business with Russell if enough card companies make claims against them as they hold the payment from Paypal.

    So - all of you that have been screwed and used a card, call your carrier and make a claim regardless of how long ago you placed the order. You may have to ask for a supervisor and lay out why their 60-day policy can't work when ordering queens/nucs, but I know that most of the cards are pretty tolerant of the card holder in the case of obvious scumballism like what is going on with Russell. The worst that happens is the card carrier tells you no. Oh wait - the worst that could happen already has - you have lost your money with no reasonable chance of recovering it.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by DavidP2211; 09-14-2012 at 08:35 PM.

  8. #328
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,439

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Those who have yet to receive a refund from Long Creek Apiaries might try this as well.
    Regards, Barry

  9. #329
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Harsens Island , Mi , USA
    Posts
    241

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    I contacted the Miss AG and filed a complaint,,still no word .

  10. #330
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Anderson, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    I too waited and waited with no reply to multiple emails and letters sent to RA about queens which I ordered last November...that is until I requested a refund. Then I received and email offer to have the queens supplied by a "Sub-Producer" of RA. I accepted that offer only because I didn't expect a refund and I didn't want to wait until next year and go through all of this again. I didn't get the Cordovan's I had ordered and paid for...had to accept an alternative. Certainly wouldn't do business with them again...if they were still in business!

  11. #331
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    SideYard - that is interesting as that just happened to me as well. Two days ago I posted on the RA forum asking why I couldn't get a refund. Those posts were removed but I very quickly received a PM from a sub-producer asking if I wanted his queens now or Russell queens come spring. I was clear I wanted neither but a refund. I also made several suggestons that would help show that RA was serious about fixing the mess they created. These included: 1) not billing until they ship 2) Posting on both their, and other websites, about how they intend to make those of us that have had their money taken whole. Interestingly, no response was provided to those comments. Silence sometimes says a lot.

    I will be very curious whether the "hey, you can get queens now" offer is an honest one or a ploy to try and muddy the credit card dispute. If the offer was honest and not a ploy to throw mud - I intend to post that as well as the sub-producer may be a good guy stuck with a very lousy business situation. Conversely, if it is mud, well the phrase scumball keeps coming to mind.

    Finally, I would like to thank Barry for letting us post on how we are working through getting our money back. I have found that at least one other forum has an "enabler" mentality in that you can only post good experiences. Even very carefully worded posts that lay out how money was taken without getting the bees/refund are immediately deleted (I expected my posts on the RA website to be deleted but this experience happened at another site as well). The ability to honestly express the situtation, and our frustration, on this thread is extremely appreciated.

  12. #332
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hattiesburg,MS
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries


  13. #333
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    I read through that information but I'm wondering where the "teeth" are that will "encourage" the credit card companies to reclaim the money paid to a vendor and return that money to the customer. Are there penalties, fines, threat of imprisonment, or ? that would compel a vendor to return the money?

    Ed

  14. #334
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ft. Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    543

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Could be the cc companies believe you should have a product if you paid for it. If the vendor doesn't communicate with the buyer that's when the cc companies step in. No email response, no phone response, no forum response. There seems to be a 15 day window that the vendor has to provide a resolution, product, response. That hasn't happened in a lot of these cases. Let's cross our fingers that we have some positive results.

  15. #335
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Polk County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Rankin County Sheriffs Office Ph# 601-966-3568. They will take a report over the phone-their recommendation was to also notify the Mississippi State Attorney Generals Office of which I am doing next.

  16. #336
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    K9 - could you mention to the AGs office that there are multiple parties involved. AG's tend to not get worked up for what they consider smaller amounts but get more interested when you have "numerosity". Also - they will assign your call a case number (or something similar). You will want to post the pertinent information here and any other forums (with the exception of the one that will remain anonomys but acts as an enabler by allowing only positive reviews - anyone that posts over there will know who I am talking about).

    Those of us that have been denied refunds/bees will then need to contact the AG's office with your info/documentation of the claim. The AG's office will start off by collecting as much info/documentation as possible. The process is way slow as they are juggling our claims along with a lot of others. However, I have had several clients receive letter requests for info and that always gets their attention. Once the process gets rolling - it is a steam roller and folks like Russell tend to pony up pretty quick to get out of the process. Also, defending a criminal suit against an AG gets stupidly expensive for the defendants so that tends to force them to pay up as they are paying money to defend on the front-end and then have to refund our money or pay fines/penalties on the back-end.

    In any case, thanks for taking the time to deal with the AG.

  17. #337
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Slidell, LA, USA
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    I'm only into RA for $ 120.00 for a late spring nuc. Mr. Hughes did contact me recently saying the nuc had been re-hived and suggested I wait till spring for delivery. I do appreciate his pm and will wait for the nuc. Probably better to be patient then get all excited and have to overwinter a nuc.

    Hopefully I'll get early delivery of the spring nuc and I'll be a happy beekeeper. As mentioned earlier we all have the opportunity to vote with our feet and I guess we all decide on the true cost and benefit of doing business with a vendor. My opinion might be different if I depended on bees to earn a living but I do this because it is a nice hobby. Good luck to everyone waiting on their orders to be filled maybe after reading all these posts new customers will better understand the potential delays and adjust their schedules accordingly. Isn't that what it really comes down to?

  18. #338
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Grantsburg,WI
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by VolunteerK9 View Post
    Rankin County Sheriffs Office Ph# 601-966-3568. They will take a report over the phone-their recommendation was to also notify the Mississippi State Attorney Generals Office of which I am doing next.
    That is NOT the Sheriffs phone number, it's Russell Apiaries useless number with the full voice mail that
    no-one ever answers. $238.50 was my admission fee for an education to this fellow in Mississippi.

    Good Luck all who have been relieved of their hard earned cash.

    BM
    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JOHN F. KENNEDY -

  19. #339
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Polk County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by brushmouth View Post
    That is NOT the Sheriffs phone number, it's Russell Apiaries useless number with the full voice mail that
    no-one ever answers.
    BM
    Sorry, I had a list of all the numbers I had called that day and typed the wrong one.

    Rankin County S.O 601-825-1480.

  20. #340
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Grantsburg,WI
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Russell Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by VolunteerK9 View Post
    Sorry, I had a list of all the numbers I had called that day and typed the wrong one.

    Rankin County S.O 601-825-1480.
    Thank You, I will call today and let them at least know who to watch down that way.
    Apologize for my shouting, just angry about being taken advantage of.
    The rule of law in this country is diminishing rapidly.
    Appreciate your help,

    BM
    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JOHN F. KENNEDY -

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