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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    lee county, fl, usa
    Posts
    859

    Default question about a cut out that was once fogged

    A coworker asked me if I could help a friend of hers, would I get bee colony from her house. I just got home from evaluating, it's under the flooring of a shed, going in from an outside corner. Lots of activity and she said it's been there for months. They'd been to Home Depot and bought a "fogger" that sales person said would kill them.

    So, I'm going back in the morning and we are going to start opening it up. I told her if it looks like I can't get to them, or too much work, I'm going to walk away.

    My bigger question is about the fogger they used. I wish I'd asked her when they did this, I didn't. Should I try leave comb behind, or take minimal comb and toss it once bees are established? I have drawn frames I am going to use if I do continue with the job. What about the fogger and the living bees now? Are they compromised, genetically damaged?

    The weather is good right now and plenty of activity at the colony, I don't see a problem with getting them out now. I will be moving them to the country and have orange trees in bloom now.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    JACKSON OHIO
    Posts
    485

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    I would say if they have good numbers then the salesman didnt know squat. I would cut them all out comb and all if you leave any comb more will move back in later. If you see alot of dead bees laying around after you open them up i would walk away too.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,386

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    I would not use that comb in my cut out but, take the bee's and see if they make it. They will keep coming back if you dont clean it out though.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Barry, TX USA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    If they've been fogged, I'd just walk away. Tell them to call a licensed entomologist to kill them out if he can. I hate doing cut outs so that's what my stance would be. If it's not too far, I'd consider a trap out with fresh brood and queen. I had some friends that had bees in their chimney. They asked me what I would do. I told them that I would handle the bees for them but that it would take about 6 weeks but I would get the bees out for them, doing a trap out. They decided that they would hire a "pro" who came by, sprayed a bunch of poison down the chimney and wrapped the top of the chimney with plastic, leaving the bees no option but to escape through the house! They ended up with upset bees in the house and several stings over 6 months. After that time they asked me to come and do my original plan. I had to tell them that that ship had sailed and I was no longer interested in removing their bees. For a while they didn't call me a friend but they got over it, realizing that it was their decision that strained our friendship, not my refusal. That was a hard lesson for me but sometimes you just have to walk away.
    When you stop learning you're dead.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    If you find a very minimal number of dead bees, I would probably take the bees, but, I would not take, or use, any comb that has been exposed to insecticide or pesticide. That could be a lingering problem for months to come. Remove and destroy the comb so other feral bees don't move into it later. cchoganjr

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    786

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    First, my price for this cutout would automatically be doubled because they were sprayed or otherwise poisoned.

    Next, there is no use in doing a cutout if you don't take all the comb for reasons others have already stated. I would either burn it all or render it out but keep the wax separate from my "feral and untreated" wax. I suppose it would be alright for candles or some such project, but not for anything in the hive. Could be used for bowstring wax and such, also.

    -james

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Branson, MO
    Posts
    577

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    Charge your normal cut out fee, keep the bees, melt the comb and move on. If you do a good job they will no who to call next time. One small job can often lead to bigger jobs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    966

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    I think I'd do the cutout, taking as much brood combas possible and securing it in frames as per usual.
    But I would not allow that to be in the permanent hive.

    I'd put then in boxes below an excluder to prevent the queen from laying in the contaminated comb ensuring the queen is ABOVE the excluder.
    In three weeks, after all of the brood emerges, I'd remove all of the contaminated comb.
    I'd recognize that the generations raised on that contaminated comb might not perform well, but they'd still contribute to establishing the colony in your hive.

    If I were concerned with cross contamination of comb due to tracking the pesticide form one comb to another, once the colony is well established, I would repeat the process, again putting on an excluder and removing the (possibly) cross contaminated comb after another three weeks.

    At the end of that time, I don't think there would be any substantial amount of the (ineffective) fogger left in the hive.

    Not saying it is a perfect plan, but I think it is a very functional one.
    If you don't have a nectar flow going on , it is also one that would cost you for some sugar, to keep the comb production going.

    Again, this is just what I'd do.
    You have to decide if it is worth it or not for you based on your resources and goals.
    Last edited by Beregondo; 02-11-2012 at 11:11 AM. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    lee county, fl, usa
    Posts
    859

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    I found no dead bees, in fact, found a thriving colony. So far that is.

    The man who did the pesticide, his words, he didn't fog under the shed. He sprayed at the entrance and tossed a fogger inside, which had a well sealed painted floor, 2x4 boarding. He's allergic to stings so didn't want to get too close.

    Here's what I've done so far. He cut a nice large opening in the floor and I cut flooring as I worked through the colony. He said they moved in last fall, and they now have (had) 15+ row of comb. I took out all the comb, framed up just enough brood and small amount of honey/pollen to lure them into box if possible. I removed all other comb and it's in 5 gal pails right now, not sure what I'm going to do with it as alot of it is honey filled. Can't burn it like that, can I?

    I'm going back at sunset with a nuk and will scoop the cluster into the nuk which I put in 2 drawn frames, 3 empty. I thought too of having remaining brood emerge then I'd remove that comb and destroy it. That is, if there are any bees in the hive when I get back tonight. If there are none or barely none I will gladly throw out all the comb.

    I'm keeping this colony in my backyard for awhile before taking it to my yard so I can get that comb switched out as soon as possible. How about that idea of switching comb out a second time like Bergondo talked about, if I do get the queen that is. At what point will I know there's a problem?

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I almost decided not to take them, until he told me how he'd try to exterminate them. I'm really torn right now but at least I will get the job finished. They were very tolerant of all I was doing. I didn't get harrassment until I was packing up to leave. They'd been fine and at the end a couple guards followed my face wherever I went.

    Rtowney, I agree, I'm no professional nor have a exterminator licence. If this wasn't a friend of a co-worker I would not be doing this, but I have a feeling this is going to pay off down the road. I've already invested 4 hrs.

    So, hate to ask a stupid question, but I can't put out comb for neighborhood bees to feed?

    Oh and how I love my ultra breeze jacket!
    Last edited by bevy's honeybees; 02-11-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    966

    Default Re: question about a cut out that was once fogged

    Given the additional information concerning how the fogger was used, I doubt there is very much contamination, and would not switch the comb out the second time

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