comb drawn on a foundationless frame

[Lauren]

I have mostly medium foundationless. Mine tend to attach to all sides eventually, with holes for them to travel along. They draw out the foundationless much faster than the other. I have no trouble extracting the honey from them.

I went to the lumberyard and bought triangle trim boards. I cut them to frame length and glued them on to the top of the frame. It was cheap and easy and the girls seem to love it!

[TheCompound]

Keep in mind that the results of alternating foundation and foundationless are totally different in a brood nest than a super.

Thanks Michael. I hadn't thought of that. It was my first season with new packages and new equipment and I only had the opportunity to work with brood boxes. Still, the lesson was learned and I'll only be adding foundationless frames between fully drawn frames in the future!

[thomasj]

If i use foundationless frames is it necessary to use wire on the frames?

[Joseph Clemens]

Wiring frames is a personal preference, I personally prefer to use two horizontal wires in the center of both medium or deep frames, it beats the heck out of watching big chunks of comb fall from the frames and smash onto the ground during the heat of Summer. I prefer for that to happen as little as possible.

[DC Bees]

I don't know if it is necessary,i have used wire in the past but i think fishing line works better and is easier.If you want to cut some comb out you can cut right through the fishing line.Here is a pic.The frame in back has an X with fishing line.
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSC01944.jpg

[Michael Bush]

>If i use foundationless frames is it necessary to use wire on the frames?

I run all mediums and I don't. I know people doing deeps who don't. I might consider it if I was doing deeps and moving hives a lot. I do think the fishing line seems like a better plan. I like to be able to cut out queen cells etc. and maybe you could cut them out better if you could easily cut the line with a knife... I haven't tried that though.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#dowire

[thomasj]

how do you keep the fishing line tight and also what do you use on the bottom of the topbar for the bees to get started on?

[Solomon Parker]

Fishing line is somewhat elastic. It stays fairly tight on its own. I don't use it because it seems to break eventually anyway.

Popsicle sticks, either glued into the groove or stapled in place of the wedge.

[beyondthesidewalks]

I use 50lb test, very thick, and it hasn't broken on me yet. Of course once the bees have completed attaching the combs to the side and bottom of the frame it has served its purpose. Any reinforcement that it offers after that is icing on the cake for me. I just want the heavy combs full of brood and/or honey to have some support, especially on hot summer days. You feel really bad when you lift a frame out of the hive, turn it over and helplessly watch the comb fall right out of it. I pull the fishing line as tight as I can get it and then staple it with an 18 guage staple. Doesn't budge on me. Strum the strings and it sounds a little like a Ukelele.

[SteveBee]

Last year we used some foundationless frames and nailed the wedge on sideways to make a comb guide. This year, I've been putting together 400 of the foundationless frames Kelley's sells. They have the bevel already on the top bar.

[Gypsi]

Does anyone but Kelleys offer the foundationless frames with the bevel?

[Michael Bush]

>Does anyone but Kelleys offer the foundationless frames with the bevel?

Not that I know of.

[bigwoodsbees]

Has anyone tried putting a medium honey super filled with Kelley's beveled foundationless frames on a hive during a nectar flow? Did the bees do a good job drawing out comb that was relatively easy to remove? The weather here in MN is ridiculously warm for March and I am anticipating a much earlier spring nectar flow this year.

[Michael Bush]

>Has anyone tried putting a medium honey super filled with Kelley's beveled foundationless frames on a hive during a nectar flow?

No, but I've used a box full of frames just like them... it works fine.

[sfisher]

Mike how do you get them to draw frames for supers correctly then.

[Michael Bush]

>Mike how do you get them to draw frames for supers correctly then.

I don't understand the question. A full box of undrawn foundationless frames are drawn fine. A ladder might be helpful (a comb pulled up from below) but during a flow it's warm enough and there are enough bees that it doesn't really matter.

[sfisher]

Mike you said if they are drawing brood comb they will only draw it appox. a inch thick, but if it is for honey they will draw it thicker and run it all together. Which is a problem that I have had before, the frames were so thick that you cant pull them out of the super. Is there a way to fix that problem?

[Michael Bush]

If you put all the undrawn foundationless frames together it's not a problem. They will start several at a time and they will be on each frame. But if you put the foundationless frames between drawn, but not capped comb, then they fatten the drawn comb and don't draw the foundationless.

[LetMBee]

M. Bush: I have had them do as you say, but I have also had them draw out entire deep frames of drone comb when checker boarding foundation less frames between drawn deep frames. The best luck I have had is nadiring foundation less frames under other boxes. They seem to cross comb less that way AND they don't beginning the comb building from the bottom of the frame. I have pictures of this and will up them when I get home.

[Moccasin]

I used 50 Kelley beveled last year and I much prefer the wedge top instead because you cannot attach any kind of foundation to them if you want to. I may want to attach plastic comb someday I don't know. I have never found any trouble with the wedge tops in the first place. I just wanted to get a better look at the new beveled ones so I tried them.