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Thread: Is Warre legal?

  1. #1
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    Default Is Warre legal?

    I checked and in Virginia I believe that it is, even with fixed top bars. Has anyone checked the specifics and language (not what is said at meetings but the actual verbiage) in other states?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Contact your VA State Apiculturalist and ask for a copy of the law. I don't know if I still have mine from when I lived in VA last, 1984. My memory is that all frames must be removable so the hive parts can be inspected. Inspectable. That's the crucial word.

    When we built an 18th Century reproduction of a hive for use and display in an apiary on the Governors Palace Green at Colonial Williamsburg, Wmsbg,Va, we had to modify the interior so frames could be used to meet State Requirements.

    All of that said, forgiveness is easier to get than permission.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    I just checked North Carolina and I believe (though I'm not an attorney) that 02 NCAC 10B .0316 which governed hive types has been repealed and replaced by 02 NCAC 09L which doesn't even mention hive types, so ... Warre's with fixed bars are legal in NC.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Well dam! You are right. I just checked again. Three years ago they plugged the loop hole. " 3.2-4403. Duties of beekeepers. - Beekeepers shall: 1. Provide movable frames with combs or foundation in all hives used by them to contain bees"

    I think I was legal for awhile. Its good to know that the government is efficiently creating more rules. Would hate to run out of regulations to comply with.

    of course the regs don't define moveable. I can move my frames, it just takes a pry bar or a saw.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    "movable" or "removable"?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  6. #6
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    The letter of our state law reuires "modern" (post Roman?) Hives with removable frames, but the state inspector sez as long as he can inspect brood it's fine. So in TN it's open to interpretation. - probably like that all over. Be nice to your inspector, and keep your combs running straight.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Warre hives are legal everywhere no matter what the wording of the law is. Warre hives are easily modifiable. You can run with just plain top bars and let the bees do what they like. You could use top bars with comb guides. You can make half frames with or without comb guides. Heck check out the link.

    http://www.thewarrestore.com/apps/we...s/show/1947015

    You can even use full frames if you'd like. If you choose to use a Warre that has been unmodified then you will have to check the law. However if the law in your states requires movable frames then you just need to modify your style a bit. You would likely be able to make half frames and still be well within the law.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Maryland says, "removeable frame for inspection." There you go.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Again see my above post for definitive argument against what you said. You can easily run removable frames in a Warre if you wish.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    I think I was agreeing with you

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bush_84 View Post
    Again see my above post for definitive argument against what you said. You can easily run removable frames in a Warre if you wish.
    But you can't roller skate in a buffalo herd.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    If you don't nail down the top bars (which is typical in a warre') and you inspect often enough to have the connections manageable, it should meet the legal requirement of "movable comb" which in my experience is how all 50 states are interpreting their laws, even if they specify (as I believe Florida does) "Langstroth" in their law. The purpose is to be able to inspect for AFB.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    That is the reason for the Law. For sure.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  14. #14
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    This year I am switching all my warre top bars to half frame bars. When I rotate out my honey boxes this year Ill just fix the old ones.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    I've been re-thinking. Mine are all nailed down. I'm thinking adding plugs between the bars so that they will stay in place but be removable. I don't want to get involved in building frames or doing a bunch of frame by frame inspections. But I don't need a legal hassle the first time a neighbor gets stung.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Do you have an air powered brad nailer? It will hold the bars in place but you can just pull them out if you need to take a bar out. I use the smallest brads to just grip the bar.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    I used the bards left over from the (expensive) frames for my lang. They are pretty small but I'm not sure if that would qualify for removable. I wish that the government would just butt out.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonker View Post
    I wish that the government would just butt out.
    What sort of problems w/ government have you had?

    If you knew your neighbors hive have AFB and everything you can do on your own to have your neighbor address this problem, wouldn't you want government to enforce quarantine and abatement orders to destroy AFB?

    I don't think anyone really cares what you keep your bees in until it comes time for an Inspector to inspect them.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Well sure I'd want something done if it was something effective, but AFB spread all over anyway so it doesn't seem like what is done works. and maybe letting the decease wipe out the weaker bees might be a better solution. and the inspector can't inspect the local wild bees. and maybe its our approach to bee keeping that has lead to weak deceased bees so changing that approach is more important than my own bees. and maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but things are going poorly for the bees so maybe neither does the government.

    but as you point out I would be screaming for government assistance the first time I thought I needed it just like everyone else.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Is Warre legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonker View Post
    Well sure I'd want something done if it was something effective, but AFB spread all over anyway so it doesn't seem like what is done works. and maybe letting the decease wipe out the weaker bees might be a better solution. and the inspector can't inspect the local wild bees. and maybe its our approach to bee keeping that has lead to weak deceased bees so changing that approach is more important than my own bees. and maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but things are going poorly for the bees so maybe neither does the government.
    Removeable and inspectable frames of comb are not the cause of AFB.

    AFB is not "spread all over anyway".

    Education, prevention, and Inspection have taken us froma time, in the early 20th century, when AFB occurances were epidemic amongst the beekeeping industry which resulted in Modern Bee Laws and Apiary Inspection Services.

    Our bees are not weak. Any more than someone who succumbs to a new virus, a new flu, is weak.

    "local wild bees" are not a resevoir of AFB. When a bee tree colony gets AFB and dies, wax moth eats up the infected comb.

    "maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about" At least you are able to recognize your condition. Keep learning and asking. Knowledge and experience is all around you.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



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