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  1. #1
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    Default Roundup and bees..

    Ok, so Ive heard that Roundup doesn't affect bees. But it does affect mammals and amphibians...especially in the reporductive organs.

    So how about your neighbor sprays his field...full of dandenlions and bees..and the drenched bees bring the roundup back to the hive...where it gets stored in the cells along with the pollen/nectar...and possibly encapsulated in wax during comb building...which would probably mean that the Roundup would be protected from degradation.

    Would you not consider that a problem?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Considering that Roundup is an Herbicide and not a Pesticide, and the fact that it has a very low toxicity to humans, aquatic life, and insects...............


    No it is not a problem.


    That's waht makes Roundup such an awesome product. It does what it does to broadleaf weeds and leaves everything else alone.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  3. #3
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    Silicon Valley, CA
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    I cannot provide a scientific answer. However, I apply 30-50 gallons of the stuff yearly around my yards to keep them from being overgrown. Generally this is not stuff
    the bees are foraging on, and usually it is done when the plants will dry in less than 10-20 minutes. Been doing it since before I started with bees 10 yrs ago.

    As for my hives, they live longer than most hives do.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2007
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    New Albany, Ohio, USA
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    340

    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    There was a similar thread several years ago... With the increases in no-till planting practices, I would notice a small bee die off in the spring when farmers were able to plant when the fields were in full bloom with dandelions. I would see the typical signs of a "pesticide" kill the day of and for a couple of days after when farmers were planting seed/spraying roundup. It was interesting in that Roundup is not considered toxic to bees, but in talking with some university researchers, they suggested that it may be the surfactants in the formulation that are detrimental to the honey bees if they come in contact with the solution during application.

    Take if for what it worth... I have sprayed Roundup around the hives, but try not spray the bees.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
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  5. #5
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    Jan 2011
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    It is good to be wary of chemicals but, roundup is one of the most benign and has allowed farmers to forgo many expensive, dust generating, errosion promoting, soil structure destoying, worm damaging, tillage operations. If you buy into the global warming mythology, millions of gallons fewer diesel is being burned to do that tillage. I have not seen glyphosphate affect the game birds, deer, waterfowl, moose or insects on the hundreds of thousands of acres it is used on. I have seen moisture saved and reduction os saline seep buildup that destroys arable land. Millions of people have been fed less expensive bread because of it. Until unthinking idiots started using food crops in a starving world for heavily subsidized motor fuel production and now we have people rioting all over Africa because of skyrocketing food prices. Without that tillage, nesting birds and small mammals are no longer being run over by tillage equipment. Ground nesting pollinators are not having their nests plowed up. The new crop is planted thru stubble before they normally set up housekeeping. All those who have the blind hatred for anythink man made please take a deep breath and study and THIMK!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    From Biotech-info.net


    Conclusion

    Honey bees are not affected by glyphosate or Roundup formulations based on data from laboratory and field studies. Screening tests have been performed on a number of other beneficial arthropods including beetles, mites, spiders, and wasps. These tests are designed to maximize exposure (maximum use rate, no interception, etc.). Large beneficial arthropods such as ground predators (spiders and beetles) are not at risk from glyphosate formulations. Several foliar dwelling species (e.g. parasitic wasp, predatory mite) for several glyphosate formulations are potentially affected based on laboratory screening tests. However, under realistic exposure regimes, testing showed that it is unlikely that effects will be observed. Within treated areas, alteration of the vegetation following glyphosate treatment can result in substantial change in habitats over the short term, and, consequently, in some cases,insect populations.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  7. #7
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    Dec 2005
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    Volga, SD
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    2,790

    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    It does what it does to broadleaf weeds and leaves everything else alone. -Nabber86
    Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide. It kills broadleaved plants and grasses. The only plants that survive are ones that are resistant or haven't germinated when the application is made.

    2, 4-D is a broadleaf herbicide, a selective herbicide.

    Ground nesting pollinators are not having their nests plowed up. -Vance G
    Within treated areas, alteration of the vegetation following glyphosate treatment can result in substantial change in habitats over the short term, and, consequently, in some cases,insect populations. -Nabber86
    Both seem to be right, but figuring out which has a greater impact on pollinators can be very difficult. If ground-nesting bees are killed by tillage, they certainly do not need to find flowering plants. But, if they are not tilled up, emerge, and cannot find enough or suitable flowering plants, they do not need to find places to dig new nests.

    Broadleaf herbicides around here have been used to convert roadsides into grasses predominantly. That reduction in pollen- and nectar-producing plants has certainly had an impact on pollinators, including honeybees. The use of non-selective herbicides to reduce weeds in ag fields, too, has reduced weedy plants that bees might visit to collect nectar and pollen.

    Personally, I think the reduction in floral sources available to bees through the use of herbicides has had a greater impact on pollinator populations in this part of the country than the use of insecticides has had.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieck View Post
    Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide. It kills broadleaved plants and grasses. The only plants that survive are ones that are resistant or haven't germinated when the application is made.

    2, 4-D is a broadleaf herbicide, a selective herbicide.
    You are correct. My bad.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  9. #9
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    Fort Wayne, IN
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    I agree with Kiek, RU perse does not harm bees BUT, and it is a big but, its detrimental effects come from being non-selective and killing both good and bad plants i.e. our bee's feed sources. Spraying on fields has many beneficial outcomes, however its indicriminate use on fence rows, vacant lots, etc. are destroying much needed bee pastures. Same can be said for 2-4D and other herbicides. When I am asked at a farmer's market by customers what they can do to help the bees, my first response is to stop spraying their lawns and leave some flowering plants for the bees to feed upon.

  10. #10
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    Feb 2011
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    Venus, Texas, USA
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    I'm not sure I agree with the "roundup is harmless" mantra

    Do a search for Roundup causes birthdefects in mammals and amphibians...you get things like this...

    "...new international scientific team headed by Prof. Andres Carrasco and including researchers from the UK, Brazil, USA, and Argentina have demonstrated that Glyphosate, the main active ingredient in Roundup causes malformations in frog and chicken embryos at doses far lower than those used in agricultural spraying and well below maximum residue levels in products presently approved in the European Union.[1]..."

    “The findings in the lab are compatible with malformations observed in humans exposed to glyphosate during pregnancy.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=21251

    Here is a link to the peer reviewed research paper...

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx1001749

    "...The broad spectrum herbicide glyphosate is widely used in agriculture worldwide. There has been ongoing controversy regarding the possible adverse effects of glyphosate on the environment and on human health. Reports of neural defects and craniofacial malformations from regions where glyphosate-based herbicides (GBH) are used led us to undertake an embryological approach to explore the effects of low doses of glyphosate in development. Xenopus laevis embryos were incubated with 1/5000 dilutions of a commercial GBH. The treated embryos were highly abnormal with marked alterations in cephalic and neural crest development and shortening of the anterior−posterior (A-P) axis. Alterations on neural crest markers were later correlated with deformities in the cranial cartilages at tadpole stages. Embryos injected with pure glyphosate showed very similar phenotypes. Moreover, GBH produced similar effects in chicken embryos, showing a gradual loss of rhombomere domains, reduction of the optic vesicles, and microcephaly. This suggests that glyphosate itself was responsible for the phenotypes observed, rather than a surfactant or other component of the commercial formulation. A reporter gene assay revealed that GBH treatment increased endogenous retinoic acid (RA) activity in Xenopus embryos and cotreatment with a RA antagonist rescued the teratogenic effects of the GBH. Therefore, we conclude that the phenotypes produced by GBH are mainly a consequence of the increase of endogenous retinoid activity. This is consistent with the decrease of Sonic hedgehog (Shh) signaling from the embryonic dorsal midline, with the inhibition of otx2 expression and with the disruption of cephalic neural crest development. The direct effect of glyphosate on early mechanisms of morphogenesis in vertebrate embryos opens concerns about the clinical findings from human offspring in populations exposed to GBH in agricultural fields..."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    And from a more local source....why would my neighbor be instructed to keep all livestock off any field sprayed with roundup...for an entire month?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Quote Originally Posted by hilreal View Post
    I agree with Kiek, RU perse does not harm bees BUT, and it is a big but, its detrimental effects come from being non-selective and killing both good and bad plants i.e. our bee's feed sources. Spraying on fields has many beneficial outcomes, however its indicriminate use on fence rows, vacant lots, etc. are destroying much needed bee pastures. Same can be said for 2-4D and other herbicides. When I am asked at a farmer's market by customers what they can do to help the bees, my first response is to stop spraying their lawns and leave some flowering plants for the bees to feed upon.
    All good points; however only to a degree.

    If by "fence rows" you mean uncultivated areas between fields (or hedge rows as we call them here), I dont think too many farmers are going to waste time and money by indiscrimintely spraying fence rows. If you mean spraying the base of a chain-link fence around a suburban backyard, that is really an insignificant amount of land. Also, most people spray the base of the fence to kill the grass so they dont have to mow so close or use a weed-whacker. And as far as suburdan lots go, nobody sprays RU on their entire lawn to kill dandylions. As Kiek pointed out 2-4D is more useful.

    A vacant lot full of weeds is a nuisance to most people. And I am not sure the land area of vacant lots is that significant anyway. FWIW, the many vacant lots in my area (from foreclosures) are never maintained or sprayed. They bank sure isnt going to spend the money for a gallon of roundup. The lots tend to stay overgrown untill some pissed-off neighbor with a tractor eventually hits them with a brush hog, and that usually occurrs after the growing season.

    Indiscrimanite spraying of bee pastures? I dont know too many landowners that want to wipe out every plant on their property by spraying with RU. Why would they want to turn their pasture land into barren ground? Except of course for farmers who are going to engage in monoculture anyway. (Roundup isnt the probelm here, farming is).

    FWIW, I gave up spraying my lawn with herbicide long ago and now sport a lawn full of white clover. I have even gone as far as buying ten pounds of clover seed that I spread on vacant lots and even on the neighbors lawns at night they arent looking.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  13. #13
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb532 View Post
    And from a more local source....why would my neighbor be instructed to keep all livestock off any field sprayed with roundup...for an entire month?
    Dunno, the label calls for either 24 hours or 3 days depending on how you read it. http://www.paulowniaseed.com/PDF/pau...ndup_label.pdf I assume it would be a spot sprayed pasture as any pasture completely sprayed down wouldnt have anything to graze on after a month.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  14. #14
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    Apr 2010
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    Lititz, PA, USA
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    A vacant lot full of weeds is a nuisance to most people.
    I know. I hate when that vacant lot and its weeds drive by with the radio blaring, start painting graffiti on a wall, or bully kids on their way home from school

    Don't disagree...just find it sad.

  15. #15
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    Mar 2008
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    Ennis, TX USA
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb532 View Post
    Ok, so Ive heard that Roundup doesn't affect bees. But it does affect mammals and amphibians...especially in the reporductive organs.

    So how about your neighbor sprays his field...full of dandenlions and bees..and the drenched bees bring the roundup back to the hive...where it gets stored in the cells along with the pollen/nectar...and possibly encapsulated in wax during comb building...which would probably mean that the Roundup would be protected from degradation.

    Would you not consider that a problem?
    Not really much you can do about your neighbors spraying. One thing you can do is see if you can get him to switch to 9% vinegar. It works the same as roundup and only cost about $2.00 a gallon.
    Chuck Norris has a grizzly bear carpet in his room. The bear isn't dead it is just afraid to move.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Jeb: First off lets seperate the whole issue that seems to constantly rage on here about genetic engineering and (dare I say it?) Monsanto from the issue of whether herbicides cause bee losses. I can only state that I keep a large number of hives in a pretty intensive agricultural area and I have never seen bee losses from any kind of herbicide spray nor have I heard of anyone who claimed losses from any type of herbicide. I have no doubt that someone will post some type of link from somewhere but honestly I believe there are many threats more serious to your bees in the world than Roundup. Personally I dont much care for Roundup used in pasture areas because it pretty much burns down the whole area that the spray contacts such as large weed patches or fencelines. Unless you come back in a very short time later to reseed something desirable what always ends up happening is that something will grow there and it isnt going to be something any better than what you just got rid of. Best of luck with your bees Jeb, hopefully things are better in Texas this year than last.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #17
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    Feb 2011
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    In this case the neighbor 100 feet from my bees sprayed his 15 acre field to kill everything and start over trying to make a hay crop - minus weeds and winter grasses.

    My concern here is contamination of my honey that is then consumed by mammals. The bees apparently receive little if any harm. Us humans on the other hand, get to enjoy the collective concentration of whatever toxins the bees bring home.

    So, I blocked my bees entrances at least until the roundup had dried on his field. Since that field will soon be 15 acres of waste land....I doubt the bees will be visting that field for a while.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Unfortunate for sure. You will find, though, that there won't be anything for the bees to work within a very short time. Perhaps you could suggest that he put a light sprinkling of some type of native legume in his reseeding, remind him that it makes for a very protein rich hay mixture. Some of the most valuable hay up in this country is an alfalfa grass mixture that is perfect for horse hay.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    A small pesticide kill during planting is much more likely to be neo-nic poisoning from residual talc blowing out of the machinery and onto flowers the bees are visiting.

    Similar minor kills can result from bees visiting small corn plants on damp mornings and picking up the sweet guttation fluid on the leaves.

    Roundup is unlikely to cause much trouble.

    Peter

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Roundup and bees..

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Perhaps you could suggest that he put a light sprinkling of some type of native legume in his reseeding, remind him that it makes for a very protein rich hay mixture..
    I'm pretty sure he thinks coastal bermuda is the only way to go....

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