New Beekeeper to be. Question regarding Bee Weaver bees and cell size

[Oldtimer]

How do those that claim small cell is essential to mite control explain how the Weavers(as they claim) can control mites without small cell?

Do we know that for sure?

Yes. So how would it be explained?

[Oldtimer]

This isn't saying it was right or wrong, but it explains some of the reason why the belief took hold and spread. Greater use of small cell may be changing procedures to check for AHB now.

Yes well also you've got africanisation of hives on standard cell, so the method would likely be pretty unreliable.

[Kieck]

Yes, but bear in mind that all of this was happening as Africanized bees were spreading into the country. Beekeepers were not keeping AHB on standard cells (at least in theory), so bees from unmanaged colonies were likely to be smaller than the EHB managed by beekeepers, and small bees were suspect simply because the chances of small bees being AHB were higher. Reliability wasn't as much a concern at that point as trying to keep AHB from spreading.

No matter the reliability, it led to the suspicion that any small bees or hives that drew small cell comb were possible AHB. I've heard and read it a number of times. Michael Bush is spot on with his comments about size and fears of possible AHB.

[Rick55]

Michael
Do you get the PF-120 frames unwaxed and wax then yourself or just use them unwaxed.
If you do wax them what are some methods used to apply wax

Thanks rick

[Michael Bush]

>Do you get the PF-120 frames unwaxed and wax then yourself or just use them unwaxed.

I got them waxed. The wax coating is very thin so the amount of wax is miniscule.

[nickermire]

Started beekeeping Spring 2012. I got a package of bees from Weavers and they were and still are very well tempered. They pulled out wax on my plastic frames with little to no problem. I'd purchase from them again in a heartbeat. I'm just curious about other suppliers at present.

[Baldursson]

I have 2 packages coming from B Weavers in April. I asked them specifically about the size of their bees. The do not use small cell bees. Their bees are on standard foundation.

So they maintain their treatment free w/o SC.

[Mr. C]

I got 4 packages last year from BeeWeaver. It was a horrible cold rainy Spring in West Michigan so they had a poor start. I had 1 abscond, one abscond and invade the neighboring hive (that was quite a show), and one do well. The invaded hive never got off the ground and died early winter (I didn't have extra frames of brood to help them out at the time because of the other issues). The one that did well was definately "hot". That would include on nice sunny days with a good nectar flow. I keep my home apiary inside my garden (2acres surrounded by a deer fence) and could not approach the hives without being "greeted" by my lady friends. I was a little annoyed obviously, but they were by no means unmanageable and they never stung through my suit, though they would follow you for a ways. The one hive I have left did thrive eventually without treatments so I was happy about that. I wish I didn't have such a rough start to the year so I could have made a better evaluation. I had quite a few drop out of cluster after installation due to several weeks on nonstop bad weather when I got them. I think a couple of them just dropped below critical mass and never took off.

[Oldtimer]

>My question is; I am not sure if Bee Weaver uses small cell size as part of their treatment free practice.

I do not know, but I have heard rumors that they do.

That shows the need to be careful about rumors.

I said I would report back once my email was answered, and as per what Baldurrson said, Weavers use standard (so called large) cell foundation. It's surprising there are not more threads, seeking to know anything about them / discuss their methods.

[Vance G]

I get the unwaxed Mann Lake because they are substantially cheaper. I have an old deep fat fryer with a thermostat and set the wax heat at about 170. I use a three inch paint roller with a low knap but I have no luck with the foam ones. I tap some excess wax off the roller which I leave in til it is hot as the wax. I make a quick light swipe at top of foundation, flip it and do the same on the other side. Then I swipe the bottoms I missed and quickly do two more pressing harder as wax cools and is depleted. It is more art than science, but I have no problem getting the bees to move on my freshly waxed frames.

Michael
Do you get the PF-120 frames unwaxed and wax then yourself or just use them unwaxed.
If you do wax them what are some methods used to apply wax

Thanks rick

[Roland]

Oldtimer wrote:

Weavers use standard (so called large) cell foundation.

So if numerous studies, that have been vilified, state that small cell has no effect, and Weavers succeed treatment free without small cell, what explanations are left to explain the success of those on small cell? No one on small cell seems to be willing to change back part of there hives to "regular" and report their results.

Before you hate me, I am looking at reproducing my Great Grandfather's foundation mill(now in a public bee museum) and try the same size foundation her used in the late 1800's.

Crazy Roland

[StevenG]

Hi Roland!
How are the bees doing up there?
And, do you know what size cell your Great Grandfather used? Keep us posted on your developments, it will be interesting.
Regards,
Steven

[Roland]

We don't peek before we make the rounds in spring. If they are dead now, they will still be dead in March, no rush. The "guard" hive by the garage door is looking good.

You have inspired me, might have time to post tonight?

Crazy Roland

[Roland]

Grrrrrrr.... I think the cat ran off with 2 of my "etchings". This is what I have so far. If this should be a seperate thread, to respect the OP, some one make it so.

MFG. Owner Current Location Vert. spacing Hor sp. Metric

A.I Root August Laechelt Cassville, Wis. 3.58 .2067 5.25

unknown August Diehnelt Cassville, Wis. 3.33 .1923 4.88

unknown Honey Acres/CFD Ashippun, Wis. 3.52 .2032 5.16

Olm Olm/Honey Acres Ashippun, Wis.

unknown Lapp's showoom Reeseville, Wis.



I will try to find the missing ones and edit them in. If my math is wrong, let me know.

The oldest with numbers is from August Diehnelt, donated in 1924. Some may recognize the Olm name, it should be the oldest

Crazy Roland

[Lauri]

I bought one Bee Weaver queen early last summer.
The mail lady left her in my black mail box on a 85 degree day for a few hours before I realized I had missed her. Couldn't believe she could be that stupid-since the PKG was clearly marked in huge letters LIVE QUEEN BEES,etc, etc.
Anyway, Laura from Bee weaver sent me another queen immediately at no charge.Talk about customer service.
I had read a lot of Internet stuff about their queens being hot. I put this hive on the far end of my bench..just in case. That queen went to town, started laying immediately and was a great producer. Bees were not aggressive at all, great production all the way around. Had the highest numbers going into fall than all my other hives-but to be fair, it was on the end of the bench and probably was the recipient of some drifting.
She was introduced into a 5 frame split from Italians that most certainly had mites. All the new additional frames in the new split were foundationless. I did not treat the hive for mites and it is my strongest hive as of my inspections here two days ago (In the 60's) The same Bee weaver marked queen is still heading the hive. Bees are small and busy. Remains to be seen if when she is superceded by daughter queen-how hot that cross will be. I may eventually have to re queen if the daughters are too hot, but was very happy with that single specimen.

Gentle bees are great until the yellow jackets come a callin'. I'd rather have a little defensiveness and live hives over dog gentle bees/dead hives.
My Cordovans were the gentlest bees and yellow jackets ATE them up.

[Edit]

[Oldtimer]

Yes one of weavers claims is you can put one of their queens into a hive with varroa, and over time the varroa will become less.

[Michael Bush]

>Laura from Bee weaver sent me another queen immediately at no charge.Talk about customer service.

That has been my experience with their customer service as well over many decades they have been that good.

[Oldtimer]

Well if some of your bought queens are from them you may have no need of small cell!

[Michael Bush]

I bought queens from Weaver and then B. Weaver for 30 years. I liked them (up until the last batch). They all died from Varroa when it showed up and again when I tried some more...

[Kieck]

Really neat way to see what was in use in the past, Roland. If I were you, I would start a new thread with that information in it. Especially if you can put more dates with them, and fill in the sizes on the last couple. Without clear dates on all of them, it appears that sizes were increased over time (like has been suggested many times) or that different beekeepers had different preferences even then for cell sizes in foundation. Or maybe quality control didn't result in very precise measurements, and beekeepers simply didn't notice the differences much.