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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,861

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Where are you getting your wood?
    Nowhere in about 18 months, prices have gone up too much, it is more worthwhile to buy woodenware.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,608

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    I ordered a total of 70 frames from Western Bee so i won't be starving the baby if they turn out to be garbage. You might want to wait until I receive them and I can let you know what I think of the usability. 70 frames gives me 10 extra med and deep frames so if there is an unusable problem hopefully I compensated for it well enough. But if there is a heavy cull rate you won't want to go this route.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    It will certainly give you a sampling Daniel but just bear in mind that there is as much variability in seconds as there is variability in wood grains or the opinions of those doing the grading. They are supposed to all be usable and strictly speaking they are but what one person might accept another might not choose to put an equally expensive sheet of foundation in. Budget woodenware is like a box of chocolates...........
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Coopersville, Michigan
    Posts
    267

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    I was just about to ask the same question, been debating buying some frames, but two major problems:
    1) I have more time than money
    2) I'm trying narrow foundationless this year.

    I just ran the numbers on what I've been making (ignoring time in the cost, which obviously makes a huge difference for some people)

    Topbars made from untreated extra-thick decking (from Menards) run ) $0.15 each (25 from one 8ft board)
    End bars made from planed down 2x4s (because they're narrow frames) 0.025 each x2 for a whole nickel. I'm making all these out of scrap so really the cost is 0 in materials.
    Bottom Bars are $0.08 each if I make them out of the 1x8s I have leftover, but again I use scrap for most so these are essentiall 0 also.

    So I'm at $0.28 cents a frame plus lots, and lots of time. But I have nice triangle top bars and 1.25" width frames that I haven't seen available elsewhere.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Clark county, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    OK, I got the qoute for shipping to central Il from Western Bee. For 500 med frames it would be $130 if I have a business to accept delivery at. If to my house add $50-100 depending on wether or not the driver uses the lift gate.
    So at a businees total cost is $340 for 500 delivered budget frames. While Mann Lake would be $355 for 500 select grade frames.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Shoshone County, Idaho
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Does the Mann Lake price include shipping?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Pine River, MN USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Mann Lake's prices DO include any/all shipping and /or handling charges.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Port Richey Fl USA
    Posts
    242

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Why don't you check your Dadant local branch, I believe they have a store in Illinois.

    Shipping will be much less or if it is not far from you, you can pick them up. Their commercial grade frames are very good, and I believe Western Bee Supplie makes the frames for Dadant anyway.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Clark county, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    If that was directed to me pascopol.... Dadant would save $30 for the frames then add $157 for shipping. Ofc I could drive to location and pick up but thats a 5hr drive to save $30. With gas it would be a loss.

    I'm sure the numbers would be at least as bad for the OP, very probably much worse.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Bee View Post
    Does the Mann Lake price include shipping?

    As of today yes 30Jan12



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Port Richey Fl USA
    Posts
    242

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Yes it was directed to you oblib, I do not believe shipping from Montana would be less than shipping from Illinois where Dadant has a store. Did you contact your local IL Dadant branch, dude ?

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Clark county, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    No I just used their website. Started checkout and that was what it told me the shipping would be.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,861

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by pascopol View Post
    I do not believe shipping from Montana would be less than shipping from Illinois where Dadant has a store. Did you contact your local IL Dadant branch, dude ?
    Montana? Do you mean Minnesota? Mann Lake ships for free on orders over $100.00
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,608

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    On my order of 70 frames adding the shipping brings them to $0.70 each. So shipping is adding an additional .25 to each frame. If mann lake has a better chance of usable frames they are probably going to be the best buy at $0.76 per frame, no shipping added and better quality.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bedford, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    168

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    The reason why I said wedge frames in the original post is because I do foundationless, and wedge frames work very well with that. Mann Lake however charges like $7 more per case of 100. I believe western has the same price for all types.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,861

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Western Bee wants 170.00 to ship 400 frames to me, plus a 50.00 fee for the residential address. So basically ad 57 cents per frame
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Nowthen,Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    187

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    I ordered 3800 Groove top/Groove bottom deep frames (and the foundation to fill them) from Mann-Lake this fall. The price per frame was less than some suppliers - that I've used in the past - and more than others. I've ordered from Mann-Lake before so I kinda-sorta knew what to expect. Their free shipping, quick delivery (Spee-Dee, seriously) and exceptional quality of the frame parts made the decision easy.
    I've been chipping away at the pallet since early November and have put together over 500 frames. Not a single clunker in the pile.
    Long story short: I'm happy with the frames that I purchased from Mann-Lake. Price per frame was important but was only one part of the decision.
    -Phil Domeier
    www.nowthenhoney.com

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,608

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    Well that residential fee for larger orders certainly puts a dent in Western bees price.
    My frames did arrive. As it ahs been mentioned quality is a relative thing depending upon personal opinion of quality. I also admit I do not have a lot of experience with frames specifically. I do have a lot of experience with wood. and quality wood is not so relative. It is actually measurable by some very well defined criteria. In this case the frames are made from Douglas fir, It seems to me to be made from green fir as well as the moisture content is a bit on the high side. not necessarily unreasonably so. This high moisture content is the only clear reason I can find that they would be considered economy grade. Sort of like economy grade frames cut from economy grade lumber. The end grain of the end bars show considerable tear out but this does not seem to me to effect there utility in any way. The joints are tight and they frames assemble in such a way they they align square and plumb as well as resist any racking or twisting. At least whet i consider reasonably well. Since it is not really advisable to try and assemble frames without a jig to keep them square and on plane this is really not an issue. frames are not expected to snap together in perfect form.

    I have not yet found any serious imperfections in the wood itself. no knots, voids, cracks, serious warping, or checking. the warping issue may change as the wood looses moisture. I have found one bottom bar that has bowed very slightly. The grain is very straight and this appears to me that care was taken in selecting the orientation of cuts to minimize the effects of drying and wood movement. nearly all pieces i have looked at have straight grain through the thickness of the piece. In other words it has been quarter sawn which minimizes the effects of warping.

    i suspect the slightly higher moisture will cause splitting during assembly to be less likely. So it could be considered as much of a plus as it is a minus. The experience of other finding up to 10% unusable frames when purchasing economy frames does not seem to apply to my order. at lest not at this time. I do still have to get them assembled. As far as I am concerned this was a good choice and I would make it again.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    3,505

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    If the freight terminal is close, go pick up the pallet there and save the $50, I do. The problem I have with budget frames is warped or cracked top bars and a guy just has to learn not to bother with trying to work the bad ones. Cost of doing business. Does this Browning cut stock do competitive pricing on frames or do they even have frames?

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Whatcom, Washington, USA
    Posts
    149

    Default Re: Cheapest place to buy 1300 frames?

    I am trying to figure out what the main difference and life expectancy is of the budget frames compared to the commercial grade ones before I put in an order of about 1,000 frames. Sounds like the main difference is the moisture content?
    Thanks

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