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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,757

    Default I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    HELP! Actually I'm starting to guess the answers to bee questions before the experienced beeks get to them, so I might be half way ready. Not quite equipment ready. I will probably rent a scaffold, the entry point is under inexpensive fiberboard (masonite) type siding that I know Home Depot still sells, because I got some for one wall of my house last fall. Warned the home owner we would be replacing that, no telling if it will come off in re-hangable condition.

    I have pm'd my local mentor, haven't heard back.

    But I am SO excited. I took a pic but it's almost unnecessary. Foundation shift caused a crack between bricks on the lower story of the house, about bee width, swarm moved in spring 2011, above the bricks, and the crack, house goes to masonite siding. And the beehive is in behind that, between the corner of the house and the side of the fireplace chimney, nice, brick, a beeswidth furrow between every brick. Foragers periodically enter the den and go to the windows, trying to get out.

    I have no earthly idea what price to bid (I would cheerfully work for free for the bees and the experience). I was going to pass it to a more experienced company but it just looks too easy.

    My plan is NOT set. Not sure whether to build a beevac, drill a holesaw opening the diameter of the beevac hose, and try to remove the loose workers first (liable to tick them all off).

    My initial thought was just pry the siding off, have a lot of boxes with lids, put comb and bees in boxes, put in back of truck, leave a box for foragers to return to, be SURE to scrape off as much wax and honey as possible, seal openings into house from exterior side with great stuff foam, put new siding on, and Take off. Actually my crew can do the reassembly while I move the bees out.

    Tips? Criticism?

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,188

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    all I can say is that it will be educational. good luck

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    I would take the siding off. The rest of your plan looks good to me. cchoganjr

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tulsa OK. USA
    Posts
    846

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    What kind of brick? Is it a brick wall or just a stem wall?If its a brick wall is there paneling/drywall inside?ARE you sure the bees are under the upperfloor siding? Alot of Bkeepers that do cutouts don't do the repairs, they leave that to a builder that knows the local codes and have the lic. and insurance but others do. just expect the unexpected. and good luck. Jim
    Stop and smell the flowers, 50,000 ladies can't be wrong
    Bsweetapiary@aol.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,757

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    The brick on the side of the house will be brick veneer - based on what is customary in this area, where code stood when the house was built. The house is 33 years old
    The brick chimney is solid brick, inside and out. (doubtless with a metal liner) The area to the right of the fireplace where the bees are coming in has a bookcase. And in the upper right corner, where ceiling meets walls, is blue masking tape covering one of the bee entrances into the room, placed by the homeowners.

    To do the smallest amount of damage to the home, and get the best view, I think the siding is my best course. Customer has observed bees going in and out of the corner, above the crack in the brick. I will need a very tight contract that excludes me from liability on the foundation problem that actually opened the path for the bees. I don't mind foaming or caulking cracks closed, but that will not stop new foundation damage. I think the legal liability exclusion list is going to be trickier than the removal, and the removal probably trickier than the repair. I do want to build a bee-vac box first though, just in case part of the bees are between the brick and the exterior sheathing on the lower portion of the house. hoping there is NOT comb down there. There is no discoloration of interior drywall adjacent to the bee hole in the den, either on the ceiling, or the wall to the right of the bookcase. Bookcase is solid wood but I don't see wax or honey seeping past its upper corners.

    I do have the insurance to cover "handyman" type repairs - I expanded my liability coverage last year. And I have a basic knowledge of both building codes, and customary contractor / handyman practices. My experience with bad workmanship have backed me into the repair business, starting with fixing my own home. (I don't do plumbing or electrical anywhere else, not licensed.)

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,338

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Around here we charge $75.00 hour and owner is responsible for repairs. That way you don't have to make multiple trips back. Go through the siding. You can build a simple vac like this: https://plus.google.com/photos/11186...225?banner=pwa Watch the airflow suction on the Vac. Too strong and the bees are dead.

    Make sure you have a queen clip and try to spot here during the extraction. Clip her if you spot her to protect her from going in the vac. If you don't see her, look for her later. It's OK if she goes through the vac, just be really careful with the air suction.

    Good luck, should be fun!
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,842

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    It does not mater what code was when the house was built. If you remove it it has to be replaced at code, by law a contractor has to do this here. Including siding. insulation. any electrical you come across etc. moisture barrier and any changes in nailing schedules etc. If you want to really get to it you will want an asbestos test ran before you start tearing into things but then I live in the world of government. IF you are tearing out and some inspector decides to test the materials and finds a positive. no amount of bees are going to make up for the cost. IF you can remove material without cutting, drilling. or excessive breaking. That means you are trying your best to get it out in one piece. then the asbestos issue pretty much becomes a non issue. I removed all the asbestos tainted siding from my house several years ago. as long as we did not break up the tiles there was no problem. disposal was another issue but not a huge one.

    If it was me I would stick with the removal of bees and let those that repair houses do what they do.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,234

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    If it was me I would stick with the removal of bees and let those that repair houses do what they do.
    Good advice. Do what you do best. Let others do what they do best.

    See Daniel, I look for things we agree on too. Good Post.

    Gypsi,
    Have you considered doing a Trap Out, instead of cutting open someones' house? A friend of mine removed bees from an Historical Building last year. He attatched a nuc sized box to the wall of the building which had a tube going into the hole where bees were coming and going and w/ a hole on the other side of the box for an entrance.

    After a period of time the box was checked and he found that honey was being stored there. At the time of another check he found brood. Then he saw the queen. He removed the box and took it home. He brought a colony back to see if it would rob the honey out of the wall. I don't recall whether it did or not.

    Good luck w/ your removal.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 01-25-2012 at 07:07 AM.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #9

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    If it was me I would stick with the removal of bees and let those that repair houses do what they do.
    I have the home owners sign an agreement to this nature. I'm as careful as I can be while taking their home apart. But I leave the reconstruction to the professionals.
    www.briarhillfarms.com
    “What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.” ― Will Rogers

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa County, Florida
    Posts
    391

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Be sure to leave your self an "escape" clause in the contract in case you find something unexpected when you remove the siding.You might find something like bees between the brick chimney and flue liner or some other nightmare you can not deal with.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tulsa OK. USA
    Posts
    846

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    I have info/agreement letters for both trapouts and cutouts that explain how each is done and projected cost for each. The cutout agreement states that I will not cut structial beams and that I may stop any time I feel an expert is needed for continued dismantaling and that any repair is up to the homeowner or their contractor. Trapouts I bid flat rate and cutouts at $75. per hour plus the cost of special tools/equipment such as a manlift or bucket truck. Jim
    Stop and smell the flowers, 50,000 ladies can't be wrong
    Bsweetapiary@aol.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Livingston County, NY
    Posts
    510

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    I have done a few cutouts; Ask if bees were sprayed before you ever go.

    I'd be willing to bet that your enthusiasm will be tempered by reality.

    1.)Don't even start till you have a signed agreement explaining EXACTLY what you will & won't do.
    Extraction only. Extraction+Repairs. Better leave the repair estimate open ended.

    2.) After the setup/cutout/cleanup you will get an education. I have been doing remodeling for 30+ years & I thought I could anticipate the whole procedure...WRONG!
    I wouldn't do it for less than $400+$75 an hr.

    3.) The bees will probably not make it. Combine them if you believe they are healthy. If you are doing it for the bees you are certain to be disappointed.
    Vacuuming bees kills a lot & stresses the rest. I cut out a huge colony 2'wide x7' high, boxed them didn't screen them in, absconded in one day.

    4.) I think it would be easier to do repairs to the interior, but I haven't seen the job...so you make the call.

    5.) Trapout is a lot longer, less invasive. Do you want to be compensated for repeat visits?

    I too was excited about getting free bees. You will more apt to go swarm catching after a cutout. Major mess!
    Last edited by lakebilly; 01-26-2012 at 05:55 AM. Reason: more info
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    1,096

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    I say go for it. Take your time and save the bees. A chance like this does not come by every day.

    Allot of different options to try from the above posts. pick the best ones for you and be flexible if you need can change plans.

    Good luck have fun.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    629

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    First things first,

    I find that half the time bees are often not where I think they will be and I take pains to find out before starting to limit damages and savetime. Stethescope, borescope, thermal reader all help to let you know what your getting into ahead of time.

    I thought this colony was in the outside wall till I scoped them:


    I add an extra $250 bucks if the bees have been sprayed.

    Don

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,757

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Now I'm wanting something that will view infrared before I touch this cutout. Least expensive effective model?


    I found a Fluke TI-10 for a bit over $5,000. and I thought my other bee toys were expensive!!!! So glad I checked Grainger's online instead of by phone. The call would have been quite humorous.
    Last edited by Gypsi; 01-26-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: thermal imaging research.. done.
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Nacogdoches,TX,USA
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    In my area East Texas Nacogdoches and surrounding area I charge $350.00 for removal up to 2 scaffold high no repair
    but as others have stated you dont always get the bees did 12 cut outs last year and ended with about 8 colony's that stayed and had queens or made new
    this time of year if you dont get the queen small chance of them being able to make new queen and get her matted even if you get eggs an larva

    good luck it is hard messy work but fun also

    David

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,757

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    well, do I need to get infrared and/or a stethoscope before I pull this piece of siding off to look?
    jeans_house_bees_sm.gif

    The bees entrance is reputed to be where the crack in the brick meets the corner of the siding. A lot of foundation shifting occurred last summer during the drought, the owner didn't start watering her foundation until damage was done. She works for the schools, her husband is retired with COPD and other disabilities, so they don't have a lot of money. I want to do it right, not do damage, and they really don't have a lot of cash to hire a contractor or ability. If it is simple, and we simply get the bees out, and close exterior openings, and don't do more damage, I'd be happy.

    Infrared sounds good, because the bees could be between the first and second floors as well as behind this siding. But if they are between the first and second floors (oh mentor, are you reading this?)... I'm scared. Not of the bees, but of getting into a repair situation above my level of expertise.

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    919

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Infrared is nice but not necessary. If you are unsure as to where the bees are a stethescope or even turning a funnel upside down will narrow it down somewhat. Another trick is to insert a thin wire or coat hanger through the wall until you hit honey. If you miss, the small holes are easily reparied. I too have found them not to be where logic would indicate they "should" be. For some educational videos look up JP's bee removal videos on Youtube. Entertaining and educational. Covers all sorts of removals from walls to ceilings to floors, etc.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Outagamie County, Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    881

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    Gypsi,

    Maybe instead of purchasing the infrared, you could rent it. Or maybe a contractor would operate his own infrared equipment for you (or borrow it to you) if he knew he was helping a couple with special circumstances and limited funds.

    Don't forget the camera, rubber bands and pail of warm water. Let us know how it goes and good luck.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,234

    Default Re: I have a cutout to bid. Really.

    I haven't been fol,lowing this closely, but, when you mention infrared I see money being spent which I thought Gypsi didn't have to invest in bees. Maybe this project is going to cost Gypsi more than just buying bees would.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

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