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Thread: Maqs

  1. #1
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    Default Maqs

    Does anyone have actual experience using this product in their commercial operations?

    Thanks

    Ian
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Maqs

    I treated about 550 last year.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Maqs

    In Oct. I treated about 250 colonies.... tough on the hide!
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Is it too soon to tell the results of your treatments? Did you kill mites? How about queen mortality?
    Are you going to use it again?
    What did you do with the used pads?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Really tough on the queens and brood. Something like 40% queen loss.
    After 60 days I was getting mites in the double digits in an alcohol wash.
    The used pads are not removed by the bees, must be removed by the keeper.
    Harry VanDerpool recommended having queens on hand for immediate replacement. This is good advice, if you wait & see it will be too late.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Maqs

    So this is basically a flash treatment
    what were your treatment temps?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Maqs

    I had some mortality, but not nearly as much as I thought there would be. Mortality was in hives that had too few bees. I have not done any testing.... only general observation that they seem to be doing well.

    My plan is to use it only as a fall treatment.

    I am scraping the old pads off as I work my way around. They do not disintegrate.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Ian temps when I treated were right in the middle of desired range, daytime highs in the low to mid eighties.
    Killed most of the brood.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Herb - What is the pad made out of? I would assume it would of been taken out of the hive by the bees,
    Do you treat in double hives?
    And your thinking of fall time treatment is because there are more bees in the fall or because of the lower temp
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Wow Tom, what your saying is exactly what they said they had solved from their original Formic treatments,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Maqs

    I do not know what the pad is made of (possibly a silica gel), just that it is something that the bees do not carry out... at least in last 3 months.

    We treat in Doubles and in singles... but the singles better be pretty strong.

    We treat in the late fall because brood laying is coming to an end with these bees and because it is still pretty warm down here... 70-80. It definitely puts an end to the brood laying.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Maqs

    I treated a portion of my outfit with MAQS in 2011 in groups of 40 - 80.
    Those hives are the best looking hives at this time.
    Temps were in the low to mid 60s.
    MAQS is a 3 day formic flash treatment.
    I have been using formic for flash treatments on and off for about 20 years.
    Flash treatments kill a certain amout of queens every single time and MAQS is no different.
    My first MAQS application was in 80 hives. 5 days later, 28 hives had emergency cells present. NOT SS cells, emergency cells.
    This indicates that the queen was lost in the last few days.
    Also, ALL open brood was killed in the smaller hives. Emerging bees were killed in the first day of application as evidenced by rings of bees half way out of the cells, dead.
    Much of the sealed brood survived.
    Strong, or SUPER STRONG hives fared better, although much open brood in the area of the pads were killed as well.
    Dr Ramesh Sagili, Carolyn Breese research assistant both from Oregon State University and I conducted disections and found that varroa was killed in all sealed cells, EXCEPT old thick waxy drone cells.
    A lot of this sounds a bit scary, but if you have good strong hives that you don't mind setting back a couple of weeks, you will end up with some really good looking hives, low on varroa.
    As Tom Laury mentioned, DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT WITHOUT A FRESHLY STOCKED QUEEN BANK!
    Make sure to queen check every single hive at day 7 AT THE LATEST!
    The instructions state that there is no need to remove the strips because the bees will do that. Unfortunatly, this implies that you needn't return to the hive any time soon. Disasterous advice! Return prior to day 7 and while you are there remove the strips so the bees don't have to screw with it.
    The treatment is over on day 4. The pad has a faint odor of formic at this point but not enough volume to kill a flea. So while you are doing your own trials, don't hesitate to open the hive after day 3.
    There have been panicked attempts to lower queen losses by suggesting that you stagger the boxes to give more ventilation; VERY POOR IDEA!
    This is a flash treatment, and having wind blowing through the hive just lowers the efficacy. You are eather going to do the treatment or you are not; no inbetween.
    There is some interest in trying one pad. One pad kills phoretic mites and maybe (I havent looked) some sealed brood right around the pad for 3 days. If you use one pad just remember that you are now NOT presenting enough vapor for a flash treatment and rather conducting a 3 day formic treatment. It will kill a lot of mites on the bees, but for 3 days only.
    All of this is based on double deeps with one honey super present.
    We exchanged our experience's with those of other larger outfits here in Oregon and found them to be identical.
    Lowest queen loss was 20% highest was around 40%.
    I will use MAQS in the future when it makes sense. I will just expect the same queen loss that our old liquid formic flash treatments typically delivered.
    The main thing to know is to follow the instructions with the addition of queen check prior to day 7.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Thanks Harry

    >>MAQS is a 3 day formic flash treatment.<<

    I was under the impression this was not a flash treatment. Ill have to re check my sources to see if I read this or just got the impression of this

    >>Strong, or SUPER STRONG hives fared better, although much open brood in the area of the pads were killed as well<<

    Again I was under the impression that they made claims of no brood damage

    >>As Tom Laury mentioned, DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT WITHOUT A FRESHLY STOCKED QUEEN BANK!
    Make sure to queen check every single hive at day 7 AT THE LATEST!<<

    Again I was under the impression the treatment was not hard on queens

    >>We exchanged our experience's with those of other larger outfits here in Oregon and found them to be identical.<<

    Thanks for the imput Harry, Tom and Herb

    Maybe Im not keeping up with the latest bee news but I know for a fact they had originally discribed this product as "easy on bees, kills mites in capped cells, no brood losses, low queen losses, treatment during flows, no need to remove old pads" I also think I thought I read they specifically mentioned that this was not a flash treatment. Maybe it was the representative speeker from NOD at a convention a couple of years back. She was mainly speeking on primary testing of this product. I also remember her mentioning this product worked by killing the volinrable male mites in the hive.
    Everything I said here is from memory and Im going to take a looksee for some factual claims

    If your experiences and other experiences are as such, then I dont really want to use it in my hives.

    There is going to be a booth at our local national convention this week, any questions I should have them field?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Maqs

    From NOD Apiary Products web page

    >>Males live only within the capped brood cell. They do not develop a hard outer shell so they are more susceptible to the formic acid vapours. With the MAQS formulation enough formic acid is able to penetrate the brood cell cappings to cause varroa death, yet leaves the pupating larva unharmed<<

    >>In the field trials NOD’s formulation achieved almost 100% kill of the varroa males in both drone and worker cells and over 95% kill of the phoretic mites. As well, we achieved excellent efficacy killing female varroa under the cap; 65 to 80% in drone brood, over 95% in worker brood.<<


    >>Upper Temperature Limit Tolerance Trial for
    Mite Away Quick Strips™ (MAQS).
    Researcher: David VanderDussen1. Observer/recorder: Kathleen Ireland2
    http://www.miteaway.com/MAQSTM/Resea...ather_Data.pdf

    25 colonies in Langstroth style hives of various configurations, ranging from single brood
    chambers, no supers, up to two brood chambers and multiple supers, were used in the trial.
    Colonies varied in strength from below the recommended 6-frame minimum (4 frame was the
    smallest at time of application, it expanded to 5 frames by the time of the post application
    examination) to greater than 20 frames. Queens were from 2009 or, if they had been
    superseded, 2010.

    The MAQS strips are considered spent after the first 3 days of treatment

    Conclusion
    There were no concerns regarding the colonies ability to handle MAQS at the temperatures
    tested. 33 C is an advisable upper temperature limit for MAQS at the time of application and
    during the treatment period.<<
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Maqs

    I was wrong about thinking MAQS was not a flash treatment

    How is this product different from formic soaked cardboard?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Maqs

    It is more expensive.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    Flash treatments kill a certain amout of queens every single time and MAQS is no different.
    ...
    Also, ALL open brood was killed in the smaller hives
    ....
    much open brood in the area of the pads were killed as well.
    ...
    Lowest queen loss was 20% highest was around 40%.
    I was considering trying MAQS simply to AVOID issues like these . . . If we are talking a 20-40% queen loss and dead brood, I'm going to have to re-evaluate the use of this system.

    Lets be honest here, MAQS are not cheap. Roughly $5 a treatment, not counting shipping or labor. Now, if you get an (on average) 30% queen loss, and a queen costs $20, this means on average you will have to spend $6 on a new queen (even if you have one lying around, it wasn't free to get it, or to hold on to it). That takes your price up to $11 per treatment. That doesn't take into effect the brood loss. That is getting a little higher than I am interested in spending on a per treatment basis.

    Assuming there is a 30% queen loss within the first three days (the only treatment days), would it be possible to remove the queen from the hive for that period of time? Perhaps bank her, returning her to the hive once the treatment is over?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Maqs

    I also think MAQS is not a flash treatment, if it were i would not spend the money to buy it when you can make your own FLASH pads using meat pads and bulk formic diluted a bit. MAQS is hard on mostly old queens or bad queens which you dont want anyway. 80 degrees is way to hot to use these pads. to safely use MAQS it should be cooler than 75. I think ideal temps would be mid to high 60's. we treated over over 2000 colonies with MAQS and the overall out come is good. i wish it was cheaper

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    How is this product different from formic soaked cardboard?
    1) Its legal.
    2) It's legal to use with honey supers on.
    3) Pre-soaked in handy plastic slips, in a sturdy bucket ready to use.
    4) Pads are biodregradable, throw them on a pile and let them compost; legally!
    5) Soaking pads while all suited up in resperator, gloves, apron, boots, face shield and all of the equipment and time can discourage beekeepers from using formic which I consider the silver bullet of treatments.

    Now I am about to make a statement. PLEASE DO NOT DO WHAT IS IN THE STATEMENT. IF YOU DO, IT IS BASED ON YOUR OWN DECISIONS NOT MY RECOMENDATION.

    Statement: Nobody that I know wears a resperator when using MAQS. We all wear acid gloves, period.
    Notice to safety police: Yes, I know what the label says!
    Read Randy Olivers opinion on this.
    Also, (the above disclaimer still applies) at 7 days, I spent all day removing pads with my bare hands. The pads are spent.
    I, (not you; remember?) can pick up the spent pads and stick them right up to my nose and take a big sniff. Nothing much there.

    Now, what the above information means to me is a much safer, easy and ready to use product at a time of the year that beekeepers don't have lots of spare time.
    As far as queen loss; I need to ramp up my requeening schedule anyway. Good time of the year to do it.
    Someone mentioned using MAQS in the fall. My hunch is that timing is regional.
    We treat hives in my area at the time that winter bees are starting to be produced. Seems to me that a formic treatment at that time would be the kiss of death.
    My target date here is right after tree fruits in the spring when they are getting ideas of swarming.
    And boy, if you ever wanted a treatment that knocks the swarm right out of them, MAQS is it.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Maqs

    Quote Originally Posted by benstung View Post
    I also think MAQS is not a flash treatment....
    Then you know more than the manufacturer.
    Go to their website and watch the video from the engineer that concieved of MAQS.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

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