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  1. #1
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    Default Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Thanks for posting it. I love looking at this sort of stuff.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    I am in the "Dreamers" stage. I hope this post will stimulate a progression from dream to reality to some honey house pics. I am collecting boiler components to engineer a forced water heating/cleaning utility.
    I will analyze & research till I can put together a frugal honey house w/expansion potential.

    I hope that many will contribute to this thread (ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO BUILT A HH AND LEFT SOMETHING OUT) so that anyone & everyone can work through the conceptual hurdles to the actual w/minimal regret.

    Pics, diagrams & input ad nauseam welcomed!
    Last edited by lakebilly; 01-16-2012 at 01:44 PM.
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Quote Originally Posted by lakebilly View Post


    What do you think?
    1983? Might be a little outdated.

    Layouts are completely dependant on volumes, equipment and manpower so all of these have to be determined prior to a layout.

    I disagree with the hot house layout. Yes it needs two doors but the "in" should be at one end and the "out" should be at the other end. Centrally located allows the heat to dissipate into the rest of the building instead of going outside the building through an exterior wall. Ceiling fans should be used to keep the heat off the ceiling so higher pallets are not warmer then lower pallets. I don't see a problem with the "out" going into the extracting room like the paper objected to.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #5
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Lots of folks have only one door into and out of their Hot Room. Andy Card runs 10,000 cols and his Hot Room has only one door. Not that Acebird is wrong. It's just a matter of what is practical for ones' own situation.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Like I said it depends on a lot of things. The two door concept is so that you can easily control FIFO (first in first out). Doors at opposite ends of the room make it logistically easier.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    I would think that heat lines, electric would be on the outside walls for many reasons. re-configuring an expansion. heat envelop, not under foot.

    work flow in, around perimeter & out one door may be cost effective for the small setup.

    Ace, Do you have a floorplan/link that you can post? I think that, depending on the work flow...out of hot room to uncapper (in my initial layout) a 2nd door is necessary. Or did you mean 'Honey House' doors?

    I have been in two commercial honey houses, 1 small(100 colonies) 1 large (900 colonies). I didn't have time to really see the work flow to make a qualification for efficacy/efficiency.

    I am currently working for a systems engineer. I may see if he can work something out in his spare time.(not likely)
    Last edited by lakebilly; 01-16-2012 at 01:49 PM. Reason: spelling, clarification
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  8. #8
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    I would suggest two things:

    Increase the pitch in the floor. It really pays off in clean up. The floor can be hosed and then not need to be squeegeed. The first extracting room I worked in was better than the one we use now. And put the drain at the LOW spot in the floor. Duh!!!!

    A possibly better plan, which we have now, uses 2 floors. The extracting is done upstairs, and the honey flows by gravity down into the tank downstairs.

    Crazy Roland

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Like I said it depends on a lot of things. The two door concept is so that you can easily control FIFO (first in first out). Doors at opposite ends of the room make it logistically easier.
    One would think so and I can see what you mean. But, if one had doors at both ends, that would only give one differtent handling opportunites.

    Consider this. Load the one door Hot Room one day. Let it warm the stacks of honey supers over night. Use the stacks as you come to them. The last ones in will be warm enuf even though the first ones in will be warmer by the end of the day. The difference will not be all that noticable.

    If you don't empty the Hot Room the day you extract, take the remaining stacks out, fill the room and put the stacks from the first day back in so they get worked first the next day you extract.

    One of the best Hot Rooms I have worked w/ had one door. The honey supers were stacked on individual super pallets. One stack of supers per pallet, like a bottom board. The room held about 20 stacks if I recall correctly. It was filled at the end of the day and the heaters were turned on heating the honey over night. Had the floor been built w/ in floor heating that would have been better. If the honey came in cold, because of the time of year, oft times the bottom two supers would go back in the Hot Room and thrown on top of stacks to warm, sometimes stood on end.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    If you don't empty the Hot Room the day you extract, take the remaining stacks out, fill the room and put the stacks from the first day back in so they get worked first the next day you extract.
    The goal should be to reduce manipulation. There are hundreds of ways to work with what you have but which ways require the least amount of work and has the best streamline flow. More pallets will consume volume so the room would have to be larger. Heated floors sound great but heat rises and will always be warmer on the ceiling then the floor. Air circulation is the only way to prevent that. If you maintain a specific temperature set point in the room (I would guess most do) the temperature of the honey rises slower and slower as it becomes elevated. It would very much surprise me if a room full of honey would equalize in an overnight time span. And it most definitely would not be consistent from top to bottom with just floor heating.
    I would use a force air system with many air returns in the floor along with radiant floor heating. I would start with a high temperature to begin with and lower as time goes on.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    As is done, though I didn't mention it. Circulating the warm air is important. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

    Yes, minimizing handling is the goal. But, until one gets into it, figuring out what works best is somewhat difficult. Though it is good to think about these things when designing a system.

    What little I saw from the OP makes sense to me. Old designs aren't necassarily bad or not as efficient.

    To me, the ultimately best honey house for a 500 to 1,000 hive operation in NY is the Meyers' Honey Co.s' honeyhouse in Granville, NY. Basically they have almost everything in a two bay garage half of whose floor is elevated.

    Their 1 ton flatbed truck backs in to its' bay backing up to a floor of a height close to that of the truck bed. The stacks of honey are off loaded at the back end of the truck by a hand cart into a room parrellel to the truck.

    The uncapper, a Bogenshoots prototype still in use, uncaps into a large tank beside two extractors. The person loading the extractors stands between them taking the frames from the conveyor.

    The extractors empty into the same tank as the cappings. This tank empties into a wax spinner which is on the lower floor at the same level as the floor of the garage where the truck is parked in the other bay.

    Coming out of the spinner, honey is pumped up across the room into tanks where it is heated and strained into other tanks where it is then put into buckets or barrels or jars.

    The supers come out of the hot room for uncapping, are uncapped and extracted, go back in the super pallets, not wearhouse pallets, and then back onto the truck or to a corner to wait for the return of the truck.

    Use of gravity to move honey is smart, but pumps usually come into use. I do know a guy who ran 500 cols and didn't use pumps. He had a strong wife. Also a hot room w/ a wood stove in it.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Though it is good to think about these things when designing a system.
    Always best to lay it out on paper and think it through before you construct a building. The best opportunity is to start with a clean sheet and no equipment. If you get the equipment first your options will be limited and then its work with what you have.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Mark,

    Any chance your friends could post a pic?

    Any projects of this size that I have done in the past w/out a drawing went over budget and much was left out. Utilities out of place needing alterations are expensive.

    See yourself working in the building through the smallest of tasks, i.e. loading supers from storage all the way through to packaging & all it's considerations.

    I use a dry erase board, & I try to draw to a realistic scale.
    Last edited by lakebilly; 01-17-2012 at 10:40 AM.
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  14. #14
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    Jan 2005
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    omaha nebr. USA
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    We built a new honey house 3 seasons ago.
    Best advice is to do a tour so to speak of no less than 5 or 6 beekeeping operations & there processing buildings.
    Take detailed notes, the notes need to be of your likes and dislikes of each operation.
    Then take all your likes & incorporate them in to your new building.
    Also when you select a contractor " DO NOT " take the cheepest bidder. I suggest you select a contractor that does top notch cement finish work, no matter how much higher the bid is. Remember you will be walking on that floor almost every day for the rest of you life & 2nd best is no bargin over a life time.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Here I go talking about something I have no idea about!!!
    I have never been in a honey house!

    I have worked in a bunch of commercial kitchens and purchased equipment to go into them.

    It is a good idea to clear the area and tape off the area that equipment will go into. This will give you an idea of flow. Pretend to run through your process with a bunch of supers, this will give you an idea of flow. It may look good on paper but you may find moving something will save bending and twisting or some other unnessecary movement. Do not just tape off footprint of equipment but widest dimension of overhang. Pay attention to power source and voilds that can trap debris.
    Production of course is about minimizing steps.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Sorry, just not the same deal as looking at a working honey house while it is in operation.
    Like I said visit a few of them both large and small operators & take notes.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    I didn't mean to imply that visiting others and drawing up plans were steps that needed to be
    skipped.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Quote Originally Posted by lakebilly View Post
    I use a dry erase board, & I try to draw to a realistic scale.
    I would think you would be required to file permits in Livingston NY. Many areas in NY require a licensed Architect. Sketches are not going to cut it but they are good for organizing your thoughts. You have not revealed what you business goals are as to the size of operation. Is this a start from scratch or an expansion?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    Ace,

    I'm guessing that you probably have never read [m]any of my posts.

    I am a remodeling contractor. I have been in business over 30 yrs. I deal w/code enforcers, architects, designers all the time. I am currently working for a systems engineer.

    I worked 2 summers for a 30 yr beek. I worked in his honey house, but I never got a chance to take in the heating system etc. I didn't care for the floor plan flow course, but we got it done. He died a yr ago. I have been reading & watching vids every chance I get. Not to mention a dropped out of a plane learn to land on my feet necessity.

    I started w/two hives in 09. poor girls they died from my ignorance. I ain't no quitter. I went to 6 hives in 2010 up to ten then down to six then up to 24, then up to sixty, where I am currently. I bought a sideline biz in Aug of last yr. I am brainstorming a HH to equip my gig. I have seen layouts that I like/don't like & I will not pull the trigger on a concept till I like one. That's where your input & others come in. I have a 33 frame extractor, sideline uncapper, 2 wax melters, 2 sumps, a pump, 1 small holding tank, & a bottler. much more stuff.

    I just (today) finished priming a stack of 130 5 frame deep nucs (it's raining)(as u kno) I have more to do, not sure when I'll get to them.

    Started this thread for idea's, & I know that this topic is of interest to many. Hope to be a benefit & a beneficiary to the folks like me. Thx.
    Last edited by lakebilly; 01-17-2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: more info to avoid off topic posts.
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Progressive Honey House plans : )

    What is your honey house like Acebird? What is the flow chart like?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

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