Plans for Kirk Webster's Feeder Frames

[Specialkayme]

Does anyone have plans to build Kirk Webster's Feeder Frames? http://www.kirkwebster.com/index.php...-with-captions shows some pictures, but I don't really get enough of an understanding. http://www.kirkwebster.com/images/stories/kw/14.JPG For example, how does one side access one end of the feeder frame, while the other accesses the other? How is it designed so that the bees and/or queens don't just cross the feeder and battle? How is it designed to make sure no gaps exist on all sides?

[Solomon Parker]

There is a hole up near the fill hole which faces toward one side for one feeder and the other side for the other.

Check image 24 of 58. You can see the cross section and the feeder hole.

It's sized to fit exactly in the hive so that there are no bee passable gaps on any side. In other words, as large as a frame, but without the bee space, so larger. Take a cross section of the box, and fill it in.

[Michael Palmer]

For example, how does one side access one end of the feeder frame, while the other accesses the other? How is it designed so that the bees and/or queens don't just cross the feeder and battle?

I use the same feeders. If you look at the 4 way feeder you'll see the entrance. It's near the top of the left chamber...a dado cut 3/8x1.5. The other nuc accesses a similar opening on the other side of the other chamber.

The inner cover is a grain bag and the outer cover pushes it down on the feeder and the queens and bees can't cross over.

[Specialkayme]

What are the sides made out of? They look like compressed cardboard, but I know that material would just absorb any feed you put in it.

Do you ever notice a problem getting the feeders to fit perfectly? I know some of my boxes end up being a few mm wider than others. Two mm isn't much to us, but it could mean the world of a difference for bees, wax moths, hive beetles, ect.

Do you waterproof the inside with anything? Or rough up the inside to allow bees to walk in and out?

I also don't have a source for feed bags, although I've been considering using them for a while. Dr. Connor explained the disadvantages to the plastic feed bags too.

[camero7]

try landscaping fabric, cheap and bees won't chew it.

[Michael Palmer]

>>What are the sides made out of? They look like compressed cardboard, but I know that material would just absorb any feed you put in it.

Tempered masonite. Home Depot sells it. Smooth side out.

>>Do you ever notice a problem getting the feeders to fit perfectly? I know some of my boxes end up being a few mm wider than others. Two mm isn't much to us, but it could mean the world of a difference for bees, wax moths, hive beetles, ect.

Don't make them too tight. 1/16 on each end should give you enough clearance. They get tighter if they swell from moisture.

>>Do you waterproof the inside with anything? Or rough up the inside to allow bees to walk in and out?

When you put together the frame, glue all joints with subfloor adhesive. When you staple on the sides put a bead of glue on the edges of the frame so sides will be sealed.

>>I also don't have a source for feed bags, although I've been considering using them for a while. Dr. Connor explained the disadvantages to the plastic feed bags too.

What disadvantages did he say there are with bags?

[Specialkayme]

Not familiar with subfloor adhesive, but a quick trip to home depot can change that

He said the plastic feed bags don't really give it that wicking effect that the burlap or cloth ones do. And the plastic just ends up fraying and going all over the place.

[tefer2]

Subfloor adhesive is what we use to glue down 3/4 osb flooring to the floor joists... keeps it from squeaking. Stinks too!
The plastic feedbags do not last long until they start falling apart.

[Michael Palmer]

or...exterior liquid nails.

[lakebilly]

Do you have floats?

[tefer2]

I don't know how you would rig floats up in a division board feeder. May something in the line of a cap n ladder ?
I think that a few lost bees is something you just have to live with.

[wildbranch2007]

the floats I use are the triangles that home despot sells for squaring doors, just break of the skinny end to length of that side of feeder. helps to have a hive tool with a hook on the end to retrieve when glued down by the bees.

[lakebilly]

I use lathe in my division board feeders. that seems to work well.

[Michael Palmer]

Do you have floats?

No, no floats are necessary. If you build the feeders with the rough side of the masonite on the inside of the feeder.

I've been moving away from the double box with division board feeder/divider. I think it's still an acceptable way to set up your nucleus colonies, but I've found problems with the procedure.

If you make them early..say before the middle of July here in Vermont, they get crowded and swarming may start in August on the fall flow. Also, the hot humid weather in August can cause them to abscond. With the double box/division board feeder setup, you can manage the nucs so swarming/absconding is stopped. Takes a lot of management...pulling frames of brood, etc. Also as Kirk does, the nucs can be expanded horizontally onto four additional combs by using a second nuc box. While this works to some extent, twice the equipment is needed. Also, they're still in a single and must move horizontally through the winter to stay on stores. In some climates...like here in Vermont, some colonies aren't able to move sideways and starve in place.

I now use a double box with solid divider, or with a feeder where the top fill holes have been closed with duct tape. Four frame nuc boxes are added on top of each nuc creating two eight frame nuce in a vertical orientation. The wintering bees can easily move up onto additional stores, and the only additional equipment needed to expand the two nucs are the four frame boxes...cheap to make. The additional four frame boxes meet over the solid divider and bees can't cross over. With the feeder type box, and duct tape on the fill holes...the supers still meet in the middle and the bees/queens can't get into the fill holes and cross over. I also see more brood in the vertically stacked nucs...5-7 frames of brood at dandelion as compared with 3-4.

Will I still use the double boxes with the division board feeder...sure if the conditions are right and with later made nucs. But I do like having my nucs draw four additional combs from foundation.

I also find they winter better in the vertical orientation and the nucs don't have to be moved onto a production colony for winter.

[stangardener]

[QUOTE=Michael Palmer;744709]
I now use a double box with solid divider, or with a feeder where the top fill holes have been closed with duct tape. Four frame nuc boxes are added on top of each nuc creating two eight frame nuce in a vertical orientation. The wintering bees can easily move up onto additional stores, and the only additional equipment needed to expand the two nucs are the four frame boxes...cheap to make. The additional four frame boxes meet over the solid divider and bees can't cross over. With the feeder type box, and duct tape on the fill holes...the supers still meet in the middle and the bees/queens can't get into the fill holes and cross over. I also see more brood in the vertically stacked nucs...5-7 frames of brood at dandelion as compared with 3-4.

would another double box with solid divider work as well as a four frame box?

[Jack Grimshaw]

"would another double box with solid divider work as well as a four frame box?"

No.
A 4 frame box allows you to work each side individually
A double box on top would expose the other colony if you had to go into the bottom box.

[scdw43]

Someone else posted this one, it is the one I use. I put 1/8" wire on top to keep the bees from mixing. With the wire you can sit a four frame super on each side.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1.../bees/TDBF.jpg