Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    294

    Default Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Hi, I'm if oxalic acid left long term residues in the hive? I want to treat for varroa mites with something that doesn't leave long term residues in the hive but I don't want to use formic acid.


    Nathan
    Good enough is perfect - Joel Salatin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    2,064

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    here is some good reading for the new year

    Oxalic acid residues

    Just before the spring treatments the mean natural concentration of oxalic acid (±S.E.M.) was measured to be between 19.56±0.83 ppm and 35.85±5.96 ppm in the three experimental groups (FIGURE 3). Eight days after the treatment the oxalic acid concentration was increased in the treated groups compared to before treatment but only the increase in the sprayed group to 62.84±15.88 was significant (K-W, p<0.05). At the first honey harvest in June the mean natural concentration of oxalic acid (±S.E.M.) was measured to be 37.78±5.55 ppm in the sprayed group, 41.56±8.54 in the trickled group and 57.70±7.95 ppm in the control group. There was no significant difference in oxalic acid concentration between the groups at any of the sampling dates (K-W, p>0.05).



    http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/u...xalic_acid.htm


    added here is what canada says about it

    http://hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/pest...ndex-eng.php#a
    Last edited by wildbranch2007; 12-31-2011 at 06:54 AM.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Nathen,
    You might investigate o.a. vaporizing.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    294

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    There was no significant difference in oxalic acid concentration between the groups at any of the sampling dates

    Does that mean that there was not any significant difference between the colonies that got treated with oxalic acid and the ones that were not?
    Good enough is perfect - Joel Salatin

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,407

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    It appears that there was no significant difference between those treated and the control hives, those not treated. If I read what was written correctly. It also appeared that at honey harvest time there was more OA present in the control colonies than in ones treated. Though, perhaps, insignificantly so.

    Which to me indicates OA is safe to use in treating bees. BUT, Michael Palmer will warn you that vaporizing it is dangerous to humans. Which it is. As will others.

    I know people who use it as part of their annual IPM Program.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,782

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Residue isn't what worries me about organic acids. Formic and Oxalic both occur in honey naturally and the amounts in honey with and without treatments are not different enough to detect. The problem is they disrupt (actually pretty much wipe out) the microbes in the hive and the Oxalic when trickled will damage the Malpighian tubules (kidneys) of the bees and shorten their lives.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmorethan.htm
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursim...m#notreatments
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,316

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    I have heart failure and getting a whiff of it the other day did me very little good. I decided the experiment was over after treating two hives. Had a real good cross wind too.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    294

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Oxalic when trickled will damage the Malpighian tubules (kidneys) of the bees and shorten their lives.

    I have heard that, but I've also heard that that doesn't happen when vaporized.


    Just so that I'm clear, I don't want to use it. I want to regress to small cell and quit treating. But I want to treat until the varroa mite population stabilizes, like you(correct me if I'm wrong) did while you regressed.
    Good enough is perfect - Joel Salatin

  9. #9

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    The shorten lives is like saying by eating butter you will live to be 88 intead of 89. When you look at the damage done by the varroa oxalic acid is wonderfull if you use it correctly. As for the microbes they are replaced in hours of treatment.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,782

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    It shortens their lives enough that if you drizzle twice most won't make it to spring.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Vance G,
    What method did you use to vaporize the oxalic acid?
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    1,238

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Are there any advantages to using oxalic vapor over oxalic drizzle? Any disadvantages?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sullivan, MO
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Drizzeling seems to have a limit to how many times you can do it a year because it is bad for their kidneys (yeah I don't remember the real term), vaporizing you have to worry about inhaling it yourself, but can be done over and over to the bees and there doesn't seem to be a problem (with in reason). I vaporize probably 2 or 3 times a year about a week apart in the fall. When I treat at all.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Economy, Indiana
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    There are tons of posts about oxalic acid on the British forum http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/
    It seems most of the Europeans favor trickling. I perused a lot of the European studies a while back and the amazing thing was that a lot of them showed less OA in ppm in treated hives than in untreated hives. I've never understood that, but I was glad to see that treated hives overall showed no increased levels. I vaporize with a 12 volt rig and it works well for me. I can see the vapor if any comes out of the hive, and I know from experience that I don't want to breathe it. Not sure if it is harmful, but it isn't nice, so I stay up wind. Next year I think I'll do like Rod and give them a few treatments in time for fall brood instead of just one in November.
    Ken

  15. #15

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Well I do not know what I am doing right then because I drizzled OA three times in the fall of 2010 and three times in the fall this year with out losing any hives. Once a month for three months each time. once in IL and twice in MS. Of course this was to brighten the wooden ware of my hives not to treat mites so maybe that had something to do with it.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SOMERSET, ENGLAND
    Posts
    354

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    It shortens their lives enough that if you drizzle twice most won't make it to spring.
    Efficacy of repeated trickle applications of oxalic acid in syrup for varroosis control in Apis mellifera: influence of meteorological conditions and presence of brood.
    Bacandritsos N, Papanastasiou I, Saitanis C, Nanetti A, Roinioti E.
    Source

    Institute of Veterinary Research of Athens, National Agricultural Research Foundation, Neapoleos 25, Agia Paraskevi 153 10, Greece. bac.ivra@nagref.gr
    Abstract

    Oxalic acid field trails for the control of varroosis (Varroa destructor) were carried out in an apiary located on the Mt. Imittos (Attica, Greece). The colonies received four successive applications (approximately one every 16 days) with 4.2% oxalic acid (OA) and 60% sugar solution by trickling method with two alternative types of syringes (an automatic self-filling dosing and a single-use) from the broodright to broodless period. The results indicate that the first three applications (from 6th October to 25th November-broodright period) resulted in 65.3% cumulative mite mortality, while only the last application (after the 26th November-broodless period) resulted in 77.3% mite mortality. Very low outern temperatures reduce to the minimum the bee movability, which may result into a slower development of the OA efficacy. No poor colony growth or queen loss were observed even if the bee colonies were received the four successive OA applications with the last one taken place at a very low outern temperature (6.2 degrees C). The trickling method using an automatic-filling syringe seems to be a very quick way for applying oxalic acid in large apiaries (approximately 150hives/h).

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17624673

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    IMO that’s all depends on the climates. Probably not be a problem in Greece where bees can fly for cleaning during winter (if they have winter). What’s happen if they must stay inside for several weeks or even month? They talking about a very low outside temperature 6.2 C, this is approx 45 F. In Greece, they have this (low) maybe for a few days before the temperatures are up again. The bad result, 77.3% mite mortality, is because bees breeding 12 months of the year.

    You should bring us a field trail from a country with a long winter.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SOMERSET, ENGLAND
    Posts
    354

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axtmann View Post
    You should bring us a field trail from a country with a long winter.
    Perhaps we could take it in turns,i find one for a warmer climate,like Greece,some states in the USA ect,and you could find one for the colder area's, one that states exacly what harm oxalic does to the bees. It can certainly kill them in a short period of time if they have a slightly high nosema count.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Peace River, AB Canada
    Posts
    456

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Oxalic treatments work best when no brood is present, up to 95% for sublimation. Since you would have to wait until late Oct. to Nov. this would leave the colony at risk during fall while they are producing winter bees. I wouldn't recommend oxalic as your only method of treatment if varroa levels are high in summer.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: Does oxalic acid leave long term residues in the hive?

    Nobody I know of drizzles more than once per season

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads