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Why some beekeepers fail

62K views 318 replies 74 participants last post by  Seymore 
#1 ·
There is a nice article in the 1917 issue of ABJ on page 159 titled Why Some Beekeepers Fail. This is a topic I've never seen mentioned on beesource since beekeepers who fail would not tend to come to beesource. What do you think, do we need to have a discussion about things that cause beekeepers to fail and how to avoid them?

http://books.google.com/books?id=bpYcAQAAMAAJ

DarJones
 
#5 ·
The article didn't define what they meant by failure, but it was summarized thusly:

To sum up the causes of failure it was because the would-be beekeeper did not know of the whys and hows of the bee trade. One did not know how buy supplies, another how to handle the swarms, another how to sell honey, another where to place the hive, and so forth. All were not inclined to study the subject for everybody has sense enough to keep bees. All those that have succeeded are men who studied the cause of former failure and keep in tune with the bees and other bee-men, are enjoying their labor and the sweets thereof.

The lack of preparation was everywhere apparent. Those who were most successful were the most forehanded, and many a failure was caused by a lack of preparedness. If the materials are well cared for, the tools in their places, no time will be lost, no stings will have to be picked out, in fact preparedness is the key to success in bee work. Let the slack time in winter be filled with preparation for next summer's work and not in theorizing on what we could do if we had 100 colonies of purest Italians in an eternal clover pasture or similar foolishness.
Albany Mo .


It seems as applicable today as it was in 1917.
 
#10 ·
As someone who is new to beekeeping (8 months), I could very well end up as a failed statistic. With the few replies to this thread, nearly all imply fear as the element related to failure. I am not sure I agree. The difficulty lies in starting with a single colony, as I presume most do, and seeing the colony through its first complete year. Having multiple colonies allows the beekeeper to experiement, observe, experiment observe etc. For beginning beekeepers, we are essentially practicing our skills on one colony (often small). 100% of a colony lost for the beginner is signficantly more that 10% of 10 colonies. I believe the element is resilance. My colony might fail, but my hobby will not.
 
#15 ·
... The difficulty lies in starting with a single colony, as I presume most do, and seeing the colony through For beginning beekeepers, we are essentially practicing our skills on one colony (often small). 100% of a colony lost for the beginner is signficantly more that 10% of 10 colonies. I believe the element is resilance. My colony might fail, but my hobby will not.
Starting with one colony is the basic error, all books I red agree.

If there is a thing in beekeeping close to 100% beeks would agree, this is the one.

Start with at least 2 colonies, 3 or more is better.
 
#13 ·
I think a lot of folks fail simply because they dont accept the simple premise that a bee hive is a living breathing organism with a fairly short life span. To succeed one needs at least 3 hives plenty of money to invest in all the basic necessities and the willingness to learn and adapt plus extra equipment to expand when you have surplus bees. Absent those things one would need to accept the fact that buying bees will have to be an almost yearly enterprise and the cost of the honey you realize is going to be pretty high.
 
#14 ·
If you don't have a goal, failure is pretty likely. I wonder if there was very many hobby bee keepers in 1917 - or did people get into it to help support their selves in some way? For me, it is a hobby, but my goal is for it to be a hobby with a payday every once in a while.

A year ago our local club was flush with new people that were hot to get their first package and save the bees - not many of them are still showing up. I wonder if that was a failure of the newbees, or of the club - or just the way it goes.

I would also add that technical/physical failure is likely to be caused by departing too far from mainstream cultural practices without first achieving a solid understanding of the basics - Reinventing the wheel before you learn to ride.
 
#23 ·
I didn't finish the whole thread just yet. I just saw this quote from David and figured I'd reply.

A year ago our local club was flush with new people that were hot to get their first package and save the bees - not many of them are still showing up. I wonder if that was a failure of the newbees, or of the club - or just the way it goes.
I'm one of those statistics. Not that I'm no longer a beekeeper, but that I no longer attend club meetings. I started attending meetings after I moved to the area, and had been keeping for about four years. After about six months of meetings, no one seemed to be interested in learning my name, although I could tell you 60% of the people who were there. Everyone viewed me as a "young buck" who wouldn't be around long. I guess they proved themselves right.

They had plenty of "beginner" classes, but nothing more advanced than that. I knew how to take a colony through the winter at that time, but I needed the next step. It wasn't there.

The meetings covered topics from how to keep bees in Malaysia (from a local professor's trip), to how you can turn trash into hives (using recycled building materials). Two of the meetings someone forgot to contact a lecturer, so the Prez got up and started talking about whatever he thought was interesting. None of the lectures really applied to me, there were no classes for my level, and no one seemed to want to talk to me. So I figured I was better off not taking the 25 min drive one way every second tuesday.

I'm sure my results arn't typical, but it just goes to show you that everyone who stops attending meetings hasn't stopped keeping.
 
#16 ·
My father in law when he was younger always had two or so hives. His dad had a few hives as well. In a rural farming community, it seemed like many had hives but only a few unless you were commercial. Now a days, unless it is someone who lives in or around the city, or someone who bought a hobby farm it seems live a few hives here and there are few and far between. Life has changed, farming has changed. Most farmers are now many sections large, instead a quarter large. Time is such a big factor that bees are a luxery not afforded.

As for failure, I think i is like the article stated...being prepared. As well, the willingness to learn from the failure rather than up and quit. Also to not to try and reinvent the wheel. Stick with the basics, learn about disease and how to work with it.
 
#17 ·
...there are a few other reasons that I see.

1. Lack of dedication: This may not be the case everywhere, but in our densely populated and fairly well off population in the northeast, many people think they can just do things and figure it out later. It's pretty common in our club to have people that don't come to meetings, don't read books, _might_ come to beeschool, get their bees...and then need help. They don't want to come to your apiary to learn (and they do not want to make their own mistakes), they want you to travel to their apiary (at their convenience) to help them with their problems. I should note that there are several beesource members whom I have helped and whos yards I've visited....none of the above applies to them (the people I'm talking about would not spend the time to read anything here).

2. Mix and match: ...there is so much advice out there, but it isn't all compatible. One example that comes up frequently is following the conventional advice of putting a new box on top of the expanding colony....and also likes the idea of not using foundation. To put the box on top, one needs either foundation (like the conventional advice), or one needs to shuffle things around so that there is some bait comb in the new box....or put the new box below the colony. Putting the box of new frames with foundation on top works. Using foundationless frames works. Combining these two approaches requires a bit more understanding than the new beekeeper usually possess.

3. Unreasonable expectations: Here in Massachusetts, we are told that 60% of the hives in the state died last winter. The new beekeeper with one hive or two (or even 8) that sees a dead hive (or all dead hives) as failure has failed...those that expect to make mistakes and learn from them are not failing when their first hive(s) die.

deknow
 
#18 ·
Eye opening thread so far.

When I first started, I was given 2 colonies in double deep brood chambers. They died out the first winter. The only thing constructive that I knew to do with them was to throw rocks at the sides and watch the bees spew out to see who was bothering them. I was 10 years old at the time. What changed my destiny? A swarm moved into the front wall of the house I lived in. They had to be removed so I figured out how to do it and kept the bees in the process. By the time I was 16, I was building my own equipment and buying foundation from Kelley's. I had a dozen colonies, a subscription to Gleanings in Bee Culture, and a copy of The Hive and The Honeybee by then.

I can get away with not using foundation if the hive is so dadgummed full of bees that they have no choice but to work in a completely empty box. But if you have that many bees, most likely you are about to have a swarm. Just one of the many gotchas that come with keeping bees. But how many beginners would know the signs to watch for and the manipulations that actually work.

DarJones
 
#19 ·
I have seen many people taking it up like they are getting a new kitten or puppy, they feed them similarly and expect them to live as long. Then they find out that beekeeping is donning a hot suit, working in hot weather, carrying around heavy boxes while getting stung by mad bees who also sting the neighbors or poop on their cars. They find that loading leaking hives or leaking honey in their clean sedans can be a disaster. . Then they get their kitchen so sticky their wife is ready to divorce them. Then they have 300 bottles of honey which takes effort to sell. Then their hive dies and gets ruined by moths. Then they have to clean it up, re-do the frames and buy another package of bees for $75.00. Then the zoning officer knocks on the door, they have to move the hive away. Then they quit. I adopted $1000+ of extracting equipment and boxes when the beekeeping fad of the '70s died off, it will all be available the same again in a few years. Been there, seen that.
 
#20 ·
>there is so much advice out there, but it isn't all compatible

“...avoid the mistake of attempting to follow several leaders or systems. Much confusion and annoyance will be saved if he adopts the teachings, methods, and appliances of some one successful beekeeper. He may make the mistake of not choosing the best system, but better this than a mixture of several systems.”—W.Z. Hutchinson, Advanced Bee Culture
 
#21 ·
So how does one describe "failure" as a beekeeper?

Losing a hive over winter. Having a hive robbed to death? Having a hive abscond or loss to CCD? Lots of things can cause the loss of a hive. It was hard for even seasoned pros to keep hives alive this past summer with 60+ days of 100 degree heat and virtually nothing blooming for the girls to forage on here in Oklahoma. I wouldn't necessarily equate the loss of a hive with failure.

Losing a hive(s) and then quitting beekeeping because of the loss is failure to me. That has as much to do with one's mental attitude toward life and loss and dedication to an endeavor as it does with skill or technique.
 
#24 ·
An excellent article for sure. Thanks Darrell for continuing to post links to those old articles. They are written in a much different tone and manner than articles written today.

Why do some beekeepers fail? Simple. Some beekeepers quit trying. Why our own Michael Bush has lost all his hives more than once. And if he didn't keep trying, we would not have access to his wealth of information and knowledge this very day.

One of 'my' newbees failed this year. I can see it being due to a number of reasons already mentioned. Fear to look in the hive. Not studying enough to know what's in there. Won't come see how it's done. Suddenly the hive is dead and nobody knows why. I don't know why, I didn't get informed until it was too late to figure it out. And I don't want the leftovers because it's a bunch of 8-frame plastic nonsense. This person knew me for years, yet didn't consult me until after the bees were shipped and they needed someone to supervise installation. Did I mention a complete ignorance of bee disease?

I started with a different attitude. It's kind of hard to lose all 20 colonies your first year. This forum was my bread and butter for months. Lately, I even wrote my own treatment-free newbee plan. It includes time to study, a sizable investment, methods for increase and an admonition to chill.

On the other hand, one could maximize profit selling bees. Feed the fad. Weed out the Johnny come latelys and find the future beekeepers in the bunch. It's a win win.
 
#25 ·
I've heard many time that as a beginner, I should get multiple hives. But my inner cheap self didn't feel like dropping up to $1K on a hobby that might not last. I've had hobbies in my past that never went anywhere (a banjo comes to mind) and some that I kept up. I figured that I could start a single hive this year and see if it was a good match.

I won't give up if I lose my first hive this winter. And given the fun I had this year watching my single hive, I'm thinking on getting a second hive next year. If after a couple years though, I don't have any hives that makes it through winter, I may have to hang up my hives next to my banjo in the basement and start obsessing over another hobby. So, my definition of success will be some amount of hives making it winter at some within a couple years. Pretty vague, but so am I.
 
#32 ·
I've heard many time that as a beginner, I should get multiple hives. But my inner cheap self didn't feel like dropping up to $1K on a hobby that might not last. I've had hobbies in my past that never went anywhere (a banjo comes to mind) and some that I kept up. I figured that I could start a single hive this year and see if it was a good match.
It is hard to drop $1K on 2 or 3 hives unless you buy a few overpriced "beginner kits" which is absolutely unnecessary.

I spent about $600-$700 over 8 months, currently having 3 colonies going, and I have enough frames, foundation and lumber to make 25 + complete supers and a few nucs, so if I keep splitting bees I'll soon get to at least 10 colonies without spending any extra money.

Speaking of other hobbies you can not learn how to play let's say drums if you only buy a snare instead of a set.

Starting with one hive is a long shot, likely either bees will quit you or you will quit bees.

For those who are not sure if the hobby will last the best way perhaps is to join the local club and/or get to know local beek, do a some field work with him or her not just watching but being active. After one takes a few stings and lifts few supers then it will be very clear weather to pursue a new hobby or not without involving significant investment.
 
#26 ·
I would like to add another possible cause of failure--lackluster packages from the deep south, especially in Northern Climates where the queens are not the best suited for the harsh winter. I don't know if it is the overall strain on the honeybee or the quality of queens being produced, but many of the packages that I received in my first few years failed due to poor laying queens that failed to build up or were seemingly healthy but immediatly superseded with poor results. (I know there have been some very cold springs in resent years that affected this, but there are some less than stellar producers as well) After great deal of reading and talking to seasoned beekeepers and most importantly direct observation I now know very quickly if there is a problem with the queen, and I am confident enough to call the producer if the queen is a dud and at least try to get a replacement. Many new beekeepers who do not know any better due to lack of study or experience and never opening up the hive and at least poking around end up just losing the hive in a slow dwindle and then winter death, and at 80 dollars a pop it gets so costly that they get frustrated and quit.
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think it is a lot of different things that contribute to people getting out of beekeeping. Here's my list of possible reasons:

1. They started with fresh equipment and a package of bees, they are a few hundred dollars into their "hobby" and at the end of the season they have maybe a few pounds of honey to "show" for it. In other words, they are not getting the amount of honey they think they should have gotten and decided that they would cut their losses and bail out.

2. They bought all the fancy beekeeping clothing, and still got stung........... that hurts!! Fear sets in everytime they open the hive and it gets so bad they can not stand the pain and they list their hive on Craigslist.

3. They get complaints from the neighbors that "their" bees are drinking out of the neighbors pool, eating the kids snow cones, and causing a ruckus. The new beekeeper gets rid of their hive to appease the neighbors..............and bee's continue to drink out of the pool and eat snow cones, only they are feral bees or someone elses hive in the nieghborhood!

4. People get attached to their pets, and to some, bees are their pets. When the cute little insects die out on the winter, the "owners" are devistated and cant stand the thought of losing another hive of 50,000 pets and get out of the bees.

5. Joe beekeeper has 10 hives on a piece of property, the property owner sells out or passes away and the new owners dont want all those stinging viscious insects around, Joe loses the yard and cant find another one..........or doesnt want to hustle and find another place........Joe gets out of bee's and starts raising "sea monkeys" instead.

6. This one is the most important.........you only "get out what you put in". If you work hard, you will succeed. If you want it to come easy..........raise sea monkeys. A lot of people are lazy and dont want to work or take the time to learn. Im the opposite, I love to work and I will drive you crazy picking your brain!!! I love to experiment and and keep things interesting. If what I did fails, I try something different. If it succeeds, I repeat it. Ive had a lot of hobbies, but nothing so fascinating as beekeeping. I like the fact that most people have a fear of bees and that I am the most interesting person to talk to about bees at family gatherings, and I am very popular with the mothers at school and provided free honey to them this year..........its like crack and they will be buying it from me next year!!LOL
 
#29 ·
6. This one is the most important.........you only "get out what you put in". If you work hard, you will succeed.
Amen. Finally someone hit the nail on the head. This is true for anything someone decomes involved in. A great example is 3 kids playing football. The first kid signs up, never comes to practice, doesnt try, and cant figure out why he isnt in the starting line up. The second signs up, comes to practice, doesnt work very hard, and also stands on the sideline. The third signs up, comes to practices, busts his butt and is the star quarterback.

Same thing applies here. When someone buys a hive, but doesnt bother to educate themselves, work the hive, or ask questions, they will probably be disappointed with the result. But if someone buys a hive, reads magazines, books, gets a mentor, goes to meetings, and applies the tips and nuggets of information they pick up, they have a great chance of being around for a long time.

I am not saying that everyone has to go to club meetings, thats just an example. I dont attend club meetings, heck I'm not even in any clubs.

Also, what someone defines as success varies. Maybe someone just wants a pastime or hobby and is content with never getting anything out of it. Others may want to turn it into a lifestyle and make a business out of what they enjoy doing. I believe success and failure can only be defined on a personal level, and everyone must decide, if they have failed or succeeded, themselves.

Darren Hardy, a millionaire and business guru, puts it another way. Those that have "skin in the game" tend to work harder to succeed. If someone has thousands invested and needs the paycheck to pay the bills, they will make sure they succeed. Those that only put in a small amount of money, and just dabble, will most likely fail.
 
#28 ·
People fail because they don't have the heart, it takes alot of heart to accept failure. Odfrank is right my wife would have divorced me but she got caught up in the giving away part to all her friends now we don't have enough honey or bees :)

For deknow, too many around here read to much as well got one local member you'd think he was living on the northern cusp of Vermont following the trends of Mike Palmer when we are zone 5-6.
 
#30 · (Edited)
If we only got out what we put in, none of us would be doing this. We could all sit at home and do nothing with what we have to put in and we would be ahead of the game.

I shoot for a minimum of a 125% on my investment. Whether that return is in added value or actual profit I really don't care, but it better be there ;)
 
#36 ·
I shoot for a minimum of a 125% on my investment. Whether that return is in added value or actual profit I really don't care, but it better be there ;)
I think that sometimes there is not enough focus on profit for/among hobby bee keepers. It's a lot easier to sustain interest - and justify the outlay of time and money with the better half - if there is some net income instead of just outgo.

I have one friend (old school conventional bee keeper) with 6 hives that sold over $4000.00 worth of honey from his home apiary year before last (a good year). IMO a great business model for a beginner to shoot for over 3-5 years. Too many beginners think they are going to make a barrel of honey their first year.

I have another friend with 20 hives (and 20 years exp) who says he has never made any money from bee keeping. Both have been at it for years, but I bet you can guess who I pump for advice.
 
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