Why some beekeepers fail

[Gypsi]

Excellent points Jeb. I've run a sole proprietorship for the last 12 years, and every word rings true.

And the varroa mite seems to be a "mite" more implicated in CCD than I thought they were when I was painting powdered sugar on my bees. There was a really great article on the absconding thread.

Gypsi

[Acebird]

Very good jeb.
My brother once told me that a business is either growing or it is dieing because if it is coasting it is really dieing at a slow rate. Some competitor is slowing taking over your business but you don't know it yet. It took me a while to understand what he was saying but over the years I see he is right.

[D Semple]

I think we make it too easy for beginners and they get in to beekeeping only half committed.

Better they should have to make their first few hives from scratch and catch a swarm or two to get started.

Easy come, easy go regards

Don

[Gypsi]

Growth is relative. It isn't all in the employee numbers (I have zero employees - seasonal sub-contractors). It is in the bottom line and the mileage log. As my competitors bailed out, I've noted I drive more and more. The drought will reduce my range, though, water restrictions in many of those areas.

[jim lyon]

Even in a family run business, one person will ultimately be the defacto decision maker.

Nothing is ever truly run by a "committee". One person on the committee will always end up being the "revered" member...either through domination, talent, respect, or deception ...and enough of the other members will subconsciously, or knowingly, march in step to essentially negate the effect of having a committee in the first place.

Jeb: What you say is true in the the majority of instances. Speaking for myself, and perhaps I am just fortunate in this regard, but my son Jeff and I perhaps have a unique relationship in the management of the business. We discuss things in depth and have always had the ability to congenially defer to the person who has the strongest opinion on a particular subject. We each have respect for the others unique talents and rarely truly butt heads on anything. Jeff spent several years working in queen production in Hawaii and has a broader perspective on some breeding issues and, in fact, may have better true beekeeping instincts than I do. On the other hand I make the final decisions on major expenditures after a lot of in depth discussion on where the needs are the greatest. In all the day to day operations I think we have both learned when to pick our battles, to always respect the other person and not to do any petty second guessing. My father and Uncle had a successful partnership as well for about 25 years and it ended amicably when the next generation came of beekeeping age. Sure there were always some arguments but at the end of the day there was always respect for each other and the goal of the common good. These types of relationship may be rare, it takes two similar personalities to pull it off but I have seen them work first hand.

[Ted Kretschmann]

So Jim, Your son went through the Hawaiian school of queen breeding also. I went through back in 1984 working for Binford Weaver/Kona Queen Co. and Jim Powers/Powers apiaries. TED

[jim lyon]

Yeah he spent quite a bit of time there in the mid 90's helping Gus and Bob still keeps in contact with them some, also got to know a lot of hard working guys there at least one of which has become a regular poster on here. They are a great source of advice when things arent running as smoothly as we would like.

[Ted Kretschmann]

Gus was manager when I was there for Kona Queen and Alan Luce (deceased) for Powers Apiaries. Some of the best beekeepers in the nation go, work, learn and return in Hawaii. I am sure that Gus trained Jeff well. TED

[jim lyon]

I would be remiss not to mention Binford and his late brother Roy S. Weaver jr. as a couple of guys that I had the utmost respect for growing up. I know of no other people in this industry that had more respect than those two, I even had the privilege of meeting Roy Sr and his brother Howard. Excellent beekeepers all but above all wonderful gentlemen.

[Daniel Y]

My question is, What does it matter. To answer your question. 40 years working with others with their bees. As I said. I have never owned bees because I have never owned a place to have them. I also recognize the difference between helping with bees and owning bees. I helped my Great Grandfather for many years. I don't think he owned a bee suit, veil or even a smoker. He was as likley to just kill off a colony of bees in order to harvest just one quart of honey as to put up with them stinging. As you can suspect not the best quality mentoring. He got colonies and even told me this is the way to do it by setting up a hive and waiting for a colony to move in. He taught to boil the frames and bodies in water with peach leaves in them. Not sure if that was meant to be a lure or what. I never had the chance to try it but I also know he was never without hives. I never heard him mention a hive dying. He killed a few but I don't think they ever died. Anyway not exactly the best of experience. So no experience really doesn't count for much regardless of how much stock others want to put in it. I look a whole lot more at how is a keeper fairing right here right now with the bees they have today. i am really not concerned with how they got there if they can manage bees now.

I do not have one day of owning my own bees. I loved and respected my Great Grandfather and his 70 some years of owning bees. But I will say hands down I could right here where I set run circles around him in bee management. So this whole how long have you owned bees is nothing but some lame thoughtless questions that some have decided means something. Again my queston. What does it matter?

Was that 40 years of experience "Not having any bees??" - or did I miss something.... it was a pretty long diatribe.

Some of these threads get a little - weird.

[jim lyon]

So this whole how long have you owned bees is nothing but some lame thoughtless questions that some have decided means something. Again my queston. What does it matter?

I must be missing something here . I dont think I would be going out on a limb by suggesting that those with longer experiences in beekeeping might be better qualified to analyze why some have succeeded while so many others have failed. I can make a pretty long list of successes and a really, really, really long list of failures based on the folks that I have come in contact with through the years.

[sqkcrk]

Yeah he spent quite a bit of time there in the mid 90's helping Gus and Bob still keeps in contact with them some, also got to know a lot of hard working guys there at least one of which has become a regular poster on here. They are a great source of advice when things arent running as smoothly as we would like.

So, does he know either Joseph Koehring or Lynn Barton, or both?

[sqkcrk]

What does it matter?

What comes to mind is someone who has flown many flights in the cockpit of an airliner, has read everything there is to read about flying, but has never had the controls in his hands. I wouldn't want to be a passenger on that persons first flight. I wouldn't want to take instruction from that person either.

I read your resume and it is quite impressive. If I needed advice in your area of expertise I would ask it of you. I'll also avoid public comment to your Posts, since we aren't exactly on cordial terms due to that other Thread.

[Gypsi]

What comes to mind is someone who has flown many flights in the cockpit of an airliner, has read everything there is to read about flying, but has never had the controls in his hands. I wouldn't want to be a passenger on that persons first flight. I wouldn't want to take instruction from that person either.

I'll second this. I went and looked at a friend's bees Saturday. I am now grateful for the experience of being in my suit, and my hive, all last summer. There is NOTHING like hands on experience. And good vision (he can barely see his bees, but they are alive. 40 miles away from robbers...)

Gypsi

[Ted Kretschmann]

Mark may avoid the question "what does it matter" but I will not. I have kept bees for almost forty years. I was commercial at age 17. So for someone that wants to learn beekeeping. Who would be the most qualified to teach them beekeeping. Someone that has forty years of just reading books about the subject. OR someone that has forty years of hands on working thousands of colonies year in and out. Go and get you some bees before you try to charade and parade as someone in the know. You gotta walk the walk before you can talk the talk. TED

[sqkcrk]

Gypsi,
give robbers a break. Get off the robbers track already. It's not like the bees who robbed your hive preformed a home invasion. Your colony was weak to begin with.
Thanks,
Mark

Happy New Year and I hope you get a strong nuc this year and don't have a drought. Peace.

[Acebird]

What comes to mind is someone who has flown many flights in the cockpit of an airliner, has read everything there is to read about flying, but has never had the controls in his hands.

You would do better to compare flying a helicopter because a plane will fly itself. Anyone can fly an airplane with very little hands on training. Navigation, that is a little different. When there is a skill involved experience counts. That would be flying a helicopter. If I were to make a comparison I would say that beekeeping is more know how than experience, similar to flying an airplane. For the same reason, anyone can do it. I don't see a huge amount of skill required, know how yes, I do see that.

[xcugat]

DO IT and learn thats all there is---no need for big ole metaphors

Also, do not take what you read here or in a book as gospel you need to see what actually works for you and your climate

[sqkcrk]

I don't see a huge amount of skill required, know how yes, I do see that.

You are entitled to your opinion. Especially since your experience owning bees is greater than some. I agree w/ you to a certain extent.

I think the skill in beekeeping is knowing when to apply the know how. One needs the experience to know when to apply the know how.

[Solomon Parker]

Anyone can fly an airplane with very little hands on training.

Upon what do you base this?