Why some beekeepers fail

[bluegrass]

I am a hobby beek. I have gone sideline before and I quit enjoying beekeeping when I have to do it rather then choosing to do it. I still make more then I put in. You can make money with any hobby. You can make money playing golf and skiing competitively. You can make money fishing, there are amateur tournaments all over the country year around that pay cash. I know a guy who bass fishes all summer on Wed nights, he is always up 2-3 K at the end of the season over gas and fees.

I hunt and have made money organizing hunting leases for people. I also sail and can make money moving boats and racing. There is money to be made in about any hobby if you know what you're doing.

Look up the IRS definition of a business... It includes Hobbies.

[sqkcrk]

I disagree w/ both of you. Don't let them swarm thinking you are doing them a favor and also, bees are not domesticated. The difference between feral and managed is just that. Managed and not. Comparisons between bees and other animals is not appropriate. Doesn't fit.

[bluegrass]

Sqeak:

Most texts would disagree with you:

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...aragraphID=ays

http://bohart.ucdavis.edu/pdfs/Beneficial_Insects.pdf

[libhart]

There is money to be made in about any hobby if you know what you're doing.

Oh I don't disagree with you there, but for me (again, expectations), if I *have* to make money in order to keep doing it, it's no longer a hobby, it's work. If you made nothing would you quit? That was the original idea proposed I think, and for me (and possibly many others) that's just not the case.

[bluegrass]

. If you made nothing would you quit? .

Yes; I enjoy doing it, but for me it has to pay for it's self or I will find another hobby that does. Beekeeping is one of the easier hobbies a person can have and make a profit with, or at least break even.

[Solomon Parker]

The honeybee is domestic livestock.

No they are not.

Honeybees are legally considered wild animals. If your cows get out, whoever finds them cannot just keep them. They are legal property. Such is not the same with bees. If your hive swarms, you have no legal right to that swarm as property.

As long as those hives are kept treatment-free, then swarming is good and healthy. If they are kept conventionally, then letting them swarm is a waste of time. They will just die.

[camero7]

No they are not.

Honeybees are legally considered wild animals. If your cows get out, whoever finds them cannot just keep them. They are legal property. Such is not the same with bees. If your hive swarms, you have no legal right to that swarm as property.

As long as those hives are kept treatment-free, then swarming is good and healthy. If they are kept conventionally, then letting them swarm is a waste of time. They will just die.

Have to disagree. Having been raised on a ranch in Colorado lots of calves "disappear" every year. Old saying, if you want to eat your own beef you have to visit the neighbors.

Some of those swarms survive every year, treated or not.

[bluegrass]

Feel free to disagree; but if you call your local entomology dept at any University and ask if Apis Mellifera is domesticated they will tell you they are.

Now don't confuse "tame" with "Domesticated". these are very different things. Domestication involves selective breeding to meet the needs of humans where because of human interference; the natural evolutionary path was altered. With bees we have bees selectively breeding them for at least 3000 years to produce more honey, swarm less, sting less, etc.

Animals do not have to be unable to live on their own in order to be domestic... any house cat can live on its own and act wild, that doesn't change the fact that it is a domestic cat.

[sqkcrk]

Sqeak:

Most texts would disagree with you:

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...aragraphID=ays

http://bohart.ucdavis.edu/pdfs/Beneficial_Insects.pdf

Historyworld notes domestication of some animals but doesn't state that bees are domesticated or how. Somehow they write about domestic HONEY. Interesting.

ucdavis writes about Domesticated bees versus native pollinators. A misuse of the term in my opinion, if I may be so bold as to disagree w/ an educational institute like UCDavis.

I would alsao point out that two examples in no way constitutes MOST. But maybe we are in disagreement of the term domestic/domesticated. Are feral honeybees, when hived by a beekeeper, less managable than those previously managed? Were they AHB I could see that as a difference. Are AHB domesticated or wild?

[David LaFerney]

Is there a way to tag a comment as off topic?

[bluegrass]

ucdavis writes about Domesticated bees versus native pollinators. A misuse of the term in my opinion, if I may be so bold as to disagree w/ an educational institute like UCDavis.

I would alsao point out that two examples in no way constitutes MOST. But maybe we are in disagreement of the term domestic/domesticated. Are feral honeybees, when hived by a beekeeper, less managable than those previously managed? Were they AHB I could see that as a difference. Are AHB domesticated or wild?

AHB is a hybrid between a domestic bee and a wild bee.

You can call UC Davis for a clarification: phone: (530) 752-0492 Ask for DR Eric Mussen, he heads the Apiculture lab.

[BeeGhost]

I fully understand when people want to make a proffit on their hobby, or even break even in order to sustain it. I on the other hand, enjoy beekeeping enough that I dont seek out making money. I never sold a single jar of honey this year, but I sure did make a lot of friends and family happy by giving them a jar for free!! These are the same friends that gave be fruits, vegatables, meat and home made baked goods..........its a bartering system that has been around for ever.

Do I intend to make a proffit someday? Maybe, but thats not important..............why? Because, this is my HOBBY. I strive to be different than those around me. My family runs cattle for a hobby, its been done for generations. Do they make a proffit, probably not much, but they enjoy feeding the cattle, having round-ups and keeping the hobby alive. I run bees, nobody in my family has ever kept bees. I enjoy sitting out by the hives listening to the buzz and watching the social interaction at the entrance. I like having a bee land on me and start cleaning itself. I like taking adults and kids alike out to the small bee yard and showing them the bees and teaching them not to fear them. People are amazed that when I stand within feet of the hives that the bees arnt pouring out of the hive to sting me to death. That is what I like, teaching the truth to people, not the animated fears that they hear or read about.

I enjoy wood working, I enjoy reading forums like this one and seeing how people do things differently, and most of all, I enjoy a challenge. Not to mention............the rewards are SWEET!!

[Fusion_power]

So for many beginning beekeepers it is a matter of expectations and understanding what you "expect" to get out of beekeeping. If the expectations are too high or unrealistic then it is easy to drop out of the occupation. What about a person who only wants bees for pollination. They have no interest in honey, they have no reason for keeping bees except that they have a dozen fruit trees and want to see them well pollinated every spring? Are these realistic expectations? Is the "profit" of having your fruit trees set boat loads of fruit every spring an acceptable result?

You have to look to the court system to answer the question whether bees are domestic or not. The courts have held that bees are "ferae naturae". This means that when a swarm exits from one of your colonies, they are your bees only so long as you have them in sight and can identify them as being from your colony. Once they leave the vicinity, anyone can capture them and become the new owner. Therefore bees cannot be considered domestic in the same sense that a cow or a horse is domestic. As for whether bees belong in the environment here in the U.S., it doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is that they are here and show no signs of leaving.

DarJones

[Acebird]

The question asked is, "why do beekeepers fail"? I have a bit of a peeve, not a serious one but it does stand out to me when people answer a question with more questions.

Well Daniel we all think differently. The topic heading does not differentiate between financial ruin and giving up a hobby and the article was not accessible to me from the link given. So I don't see why you would be peeved about someone asking questions.

Financial ruin has to do with running a business and there is a mountain of information about running a business that could explain failure. A hobby has to do with interest and people's interest change for many reasons.

Bluegrass, cats have the ability to turn back to farel and so do bees. If that were not true there would be no need to have bee removal survices. Some of us see an advantage of natural kept bees returning to the wild.

[Acebird]

Dar what if you branded the queen with a micro chip? Wouldn't that prove the bees are yours even if you lost sight of the swarm?

[RiodeLobo]

I would like to produce 100 pounds of honey per year to give away to friends. Beyond that, I don't care. Obviously, if I made much more honey than I wanted to give away, I would sell it.
In summary, I am a pure hobbiest and don't have a business plan. I guess I assumed there were more people like me. Maybe that goes to the old saw about assumption.

I am there with you. My current plan is to sustainably produce what I need for me and as gifts. If I ever want to make a business out of it than obviously the priorities change.

I am sorry but the comparison of feral honeybees to feral swine is just not accurate. If we removed all nonnative species that have been introduced in the last 500 years it would be a very different North America.

[David LaFerney]

Return on investment certainly does not have to be money. If you only want some honey to give away - surely we all do that - or pollination, or an interesting pass time those are all worthwhile rewards - or welcome fringe benefits. Whatever your goal is you are more likely to achieve it if you know what it is and conciously work toward it.

[scottddove]

interesting thread. I am going into my 5th year. I am not your typical person in the bees. I have 50 hives and fully intend to do this for a living. I have made lots of mistakes. I find myself in a strange place I will have a surplus of bees and want to make money but am hesitant to sale to people that I know. As a fairly new beekeeper myslef I know what they are thinking and it is hard to explain to them it probably is not what they think it is. I dont want my friends and family to have bad feeling towards me on account I really dont think they know what they are getting into. I sure did not. Sad thing is most of the the new keepers that buy will fall into the catagory of not having a clue what it is they are getting into. Beekeeping is not cheap to just jump into and I would have quit if I didnt have the mind set I got 1000 dollars in it I cant get out now so I pushed on got help and make a go of it. I am stlll in the red that is for sure but the secret to making it in beekeeping in my opinoin is haveing people to hands on help you and teach you. reading books is great but will not replace going into a yard with a real bee keeeper opening up some hives and getting your hands in there. As for a answer to the problem of why do they fail and how to stop the trend my answer is metoring. find yourself someone who is really willing to help you that knows what they are doing and you wont fail atleast not because you didnt know what you were doing. bees do die and it will happen but if you did all you could and should to prevent it you didnt fail nature stepped in took control.

[Acebird]

I am going into my 5th year. .... I have 50 hives and fully intend to do this for a living. ... I am stlll in the red that is for sure

If you research "starting a business" this would be a bad business plan and a reason for failure. It is not about bees, it is about running a business. Bees are secondary to the success of a business.

[sqkcrk]

Is there a way to tag a comment as off topic?

No. Why?