Converting Deeps to Mediums

[Mr. C]

So I'm hoping to convert my operation over to all mediums this coming year (we'll see how it goes). I'm trying it for a bunch of reasons including weight, interchangeability, and stability of wood etc. (I've been building my own stuff and mediums are much easier to keep from warping etc.) I had a couple of ideas on converting deeps over to mediums I was hoping to get feedback on. I have a couple established hives that are a deep with a couple mediums on top and I'm getting some singles next year. I tried finding medium nucs, but they are few and far between.

What have people tried, what problems did you have etc?

The ideas I was thinking about trying are below.

Frame replacement- As I open up the brood nest replace deep frames with medium frames. Attach a solid strip of wood to the bottom of the frame to keep them from drawing comb below the bottom bar. Move the replaced frames to the outside edge until all brood has hatched then remove. This will of course take quite a while since there will be 8-10 frames to remove probably 2 at a time.

Under Supering- I was also thinking it <might> be possible to undersuper the deeps away. If I keep adding boxesunder the brood nest I might be able to get the bees to moves the broodnest downwards and fill the deep with honey. Then I would be able to pull the honey in the fall or whenever and eliminate all the deeps at once. Not sure on the feasability of this option, but it would be convienient, no spacer boards, less manipulation (I can still lift deeps even if it's not pleasent). The question then would be, if it will work, should the new boxes be added to the bottom of the stack or possibly just below the deep each time?

I'd appreciate some feed back and let me know if you've tried something else that worked well.

Mr. C

[Vance G]

Michael Bush on his site has details on how to downsize. It would make more sense to me to sell the large size boxes you don't want. Tell why you are selling and i suggest Craigs list or the for sale feature here. You might be surprised how close to you is demand. If you payed kit hobbyist put together price though, you are not going to recoup that cost.

[sqkcrk]

Take your deeps, remove the combs, cut them down to size on a table say. Take the frames of comb and run them across a table saw too and then nail a bottom bar on them. Problem solved.

You could do this w/ comb containing honey and/or brood, but I don't think that would be a good idea. And, I would recommend using the table saw outdoors, keeping a fire extinguisher handy. Wax could drip down thru the table of the saw onto the motor starting a fire.

On second thought, don't cut the combs on the table saw. Use a hand saw and mat knife.

[millerwb]

Take your deeps, remove the combs, cut them down to size on a table say. Take the frames of comb and run them across a table saw too and then nail a bottom bar on them. Problem solved.

I like this idea. Fast and easy way to recoop some investment. You can then glue the box cut offs together and make additional boxes.

[sqkcrk]

Well miller, I wouldn't recommend doing that. They make great kindling though.

[KQ6AR]

In the spring you're bees will be up in the mediums. Just remove the lower deep, & keep stacking mediums on top.
Use the old deeps for swarm traps.

[Mtn. Bee]

Take your deeps, remove the combs, cut them down to size on a table say. Take the frames of comb and run them across a table saw too and then nail a bottom bar on them. Problem solved.

You could do this w/ comb containing honey and/or brood, but I don't think that would be a good idea. And, I would recommend using the table saw outdoors, keeping a fire extinguisher handy. Wax could drip down thru the table of the saw onto the motor starting a fire.

On second thought, don't cut the combs on the table saw. Use a hand saw and mat knife.

Mark,
This is exactly what I am planning on doing, but I was going to use my bandsaw on the frames with a real fine toothed blade. I use black pierco foundation in wooden frames and the left over strips of comb is going to be used for some experimental queen rearing!
Except I am cutting everything down to 10 frame 7-5/8" boxes!
Also the left over rim from the deeps will be my feeder rims for the winter.

[Mtn. Bee]

Heck, I think I might even place an ad in the wanted to buy section for used deeps just because it is so easy to cut them down and a lot of beeks are going to all meds!

[sqkcrk]

Yeah Mtn. Bee. A bandsaw is a good idea.

[odfrank]

It would make more sense to me to sell the large size boxes you don't want. i suggest Craigs list or the for sale feature here. You might be surprised how close to you is demand.

The best advice yet. Why the mess and waste of useful valuable equipment?

[Michael Bush]

>I tried finding medium nucs, but they are few and far between.

An eight frame medium is the same volume as a five frame deep. You can get eight frame mediums from virtually everyone. But if you want five frame mediums:
https://millerbeesupply.com/5-frame-.../prod_282.html
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com...oductinfo/682/
http://www.gabees.com/store/product_...roducts_id=235

And I'm sure there are others...

These will make them for you but they won't be in the catalog:
http://www.westernbee.com/qs30/produ...category=Boxes

What have people tried, what problems did you have etc?

>Frame replacement- As I open up the brood nest replace deep frames with medium frames. Attach a solid strip of wood to the bottom of the frame to keep them from drawing comb below the bottom bar. Move the replaced frames to the outside edge until all brood has hatched then remove. This will of course take quite a while since there will be 8-10 frames to remove probably 2 at a time.

You can just put mediums in with the deeps and cut the excess off the bottom when you move the frames into mediums. You can also do the time honored cut out. It has been recommended since Huber's day by everyone including Langstroth to get bees from one system to another...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm#moving
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm

[Mr. C]

Ok so clearly I wasn't very clear on my question. I was asking how to convert the bees over to all mediums, not the boxes. I will still use the deeps to cover my feed jars/pails on top of the hive, I was looking for how to transition the bees into all mediums, not how to chop down the boxes. I saw a few suggestions along those lines, I just was hoping their was something easier than cutting out the comb, which I didn't want to do while their was brood in it. I build all my own boxes and frames currently so I'm not worried about finding a supplier for woodenware. I was referring to finding medium nucleus colonies, not boxes.

Sorry for the confusion.

[oldreliable]

I like this idea. Fast and easy way to recoop some investment. You can then glue the box cut offs together and make additional boxes.

No..use the box cutoffs for spacers on top of your hive when feeding during winter..

[dkvello]

Think long term. Make Splits this spring, or summer. When you split two deeps, put a medium on top. When the Queen has moved up to lay in the medium, put a queen excluder below her and add another medium above. 21 days later, everybody has hatched out of the deep and you can remove it. You will want to add an upper entrance since queen excluders are also Drone excluders. Don't want to split, remove the bottom box deep early this spring, while the bees are in the top one, then follow the above steps. My 2 cents. Your old drawn out deep frames make good swarm lures, or use in Nucs to sell.

[sqkcrk]

I was asking how to convert the bees over to all mediums, not the boxes.

That's easy. Let the bees move up into the medium depth supers and take the deeps ouit from under them. Then, either get rid of the deeps or use them for honey supers, which you implied you wouldn't want to do since the whole idea of transitioning to mediums is the weight. So, get rid of them. Then you won't be tempted to use them. Or, cut them down.

[tefer2]

Finding medium frame nuc's are not hard around our area. Check with the local bee clubs, Holland or Kalamazoo.
I'm sure you will find plenty, if not, give me a shout and I'll make you a few out of my overwintered bees.

[Mr. C]

Thanks for ideas everyone. I didn't even think of putting an excluder on once the queen moves up (probably because I don't own any =)).

Thanks for the offer tefer2 I'll let you know, I already purchased some singles for next spring (in deeps). I plan on doing some of my own splits this June for next year. I checked with everyone listed as potential suppliers from the Holland and Kalamazoo association sites, along with a few others in Michigan and came up with all blanks so I just decided to do some converting. Maybe I'll order a few excluders and give that a try.

[tefer2]

I sent a PM to ya.

[Michael Bush]

>I was referring to finding medium nucleus colonies

Those may be harder to find but there are people who have them. You may have to drive to get them. You could also keep a deep box around just for doing nucs.

[whiskers]

Commenting on something I know nothing about but suppose one built some of those plywood nucs (plans on here somewhere). Then put a medium on top of the deep. Then wait till there is brood in both boxes. Then fill two nucs with the frames from the deep (to sell) and keep the medium as the beginning of your new hive. Add queens as necessary. Enough nurse bees might be a problem but as above stated I really don't know about this.
Bill