My Sideline Small Cell Business Plan

[D Semple]

Sol,

I'm selling the swarms that draw large cell comb, too busy to mess with regressing bees. The other issue is timing, hard to pass up a quick turnaround sale on a late swarm that I charged to remove in the first place. A late swarm that would probably need fall feeding anyway to survive.

Meant to try getting into queens this year, but just to gosh darn busy.

I like your input of how you have made money, the whole point of thread was just to discuss ideas of how to go from a hobbyist to a sideliner and grow a young tiny business. Thought real numbers - good, bad, or indifferent would give some insight and lend some credibility to the importance of having and executing a plan.

Don

[Solomon Parker]

Your plan was a bit different from many we see around here. Firstly, it wasn't too pie in the sky, and secondly, you're not some 20-something with a wild eyed idea. Not that there's anything wrong with wild eyed ideas, we all have to be 20-something at some point in our lives. I resemble that remark.

Many times it seems like people think they've stumbled upon some great untapped resource of wealth when they find beekeeping. "You mean bees bring me honey and I sell it?!?" But as you know, there are never that many of those and very very rarely any that have been around as look as beekeeping has. If there was wealth to be made, there would be people making it.

I'm just here to be an avid hobbyist and share my methods with hobbyists who I feel are a bit starry eyed toward commercials who do things with a whole different frame of mind. I have nothing against commercials, I just don't feel that hobbyists are best served by emulating them. And the treatment-free aspect is a whole other thing altogether. "You mean I can just not treat and everything will be fine?!?" It's good to see at least four or more users of this forum treatment-free and above the two dozen mark without crashes.

[curios1]

I LIKE IT! now heres my plan. i have one colonie i bought, and one swarm i caught. and have started my first nuc from a couple of frames from the swarm. i am going to learn all i can. and do all that i can. and get all ----- darnit she's hallering at me again i gotta go do some other things around the house. GOALS, people that have them generaly go somewhere and people that dont DONT! i will be some impressed if you only make it half way there. GOOD LUCK.

[Specialkayme]

But, if we take your nummbers (12 hives overwintered, 18 hives from cut-outs and swarm calls, and 20 splits) you are still about 20 hives away from your target.

12 hives survived the winter, we have about 45 hives total now and another 6 nucs. I have 4 more removals to do.

Looks like I was close to spot on with the estimates. Not revenue, but hive numbers. Alright, you have one more than I guessed

Good work though, keep it rolling and you'll be there in no time!

[D Semple]

Looks like I was close to spot on with the estimates. Not revenue, but hive numbers. Alright, you have one more than I guessed

Good work though, keep it rolling and you'll be there in no time!

Our drought situation has made alter plans. I quit taking swarms calls after June 1st, and it was my intention to do some July splits to make overwintered nucs, but that's not prudent now. I'm keeping only enough nucs for emergency fall queens and the bees from the upcoming cutouts will be given away.

Thanks for annoying me. ....Don

[Roland]

It is probable that my earlier post was not clear enough. As your numbers increase, the chance of the group catching a disease increases rapidly. One hive or cutout now infects 500. Alot more is a risk, especially with growth from cutouts, not splits, where you are using bees of know health.

So I ask the question again, because at a hive level of 500 you will get it, what will be done to handle the following:

AFB
EFB
Mites
CCD
Nosema a.
Nosema c.

I am not saying that there are not ways to handle(note I did not say treat) these issues, but a person has to be really on the ball to handle them ALL and still conform to the definitions of treatment fee used here.

I am saying that the ways are technical, expensive and time consuming. Is the OP fully prepared to handle all of them, singly or in any combination?

For the record, we are commercial and do NOT use any miticides; or antibiotics to treat Nosema. It is not as easy with 400 as it is with 4.

Crazy Roland

[D Semple]

Truly, I have a long way to go on the learning curve Roland, I'm just a second year beek who has gone from 0 to 40 + hives in a very short time and admit to a broad lack of knowledge. And, while I contribute in the treatment free forum, I'm not on any soapbox promoting treatment free over any other method of keeping bees and the few times I've ever offered any advice it has been related to cutouts, swarm captures, and general business. Almost all my beekeeping friends treat and we get along fine and I could care less how they manage their bees.

As far as answering your questions.

For:

AFB - hives and bees would be destroyed
EFB - hives will be isolated, old comb will be disposed of, bees will be shaken out and given new clean equipment
Mites - I count mites monthly, the feral type of bees I'm collecting and raising for my own use shut down brood rearing hard during our July - Early September dearth period. So far that long late summer brood break, in combination with SBB and extended periods of 105 + degree temperatures has kept my fall mite counts very low (0 - 5 doing 24 hour natural fall drop tests). Other tools I use that reduce mite loads include splits and forced requeening/brood breaks. If I have to treat I will, but the queen gets axed if I do. Last winter I lost 4 hives none of them mite related.
Dead colonies from CCD, Nosema C., - new equipment, new bees
Nosema A. - nothing

As far as having 3 - 500 hives, I manage my yards now so each individual yard only has 12 - 15 hives and they are spread out miles apart. Cutouts and swarms go to isolation yards for their 1st couple of months till I can evaluate their health and queen. Any cutouts showing any sign of disease, or strees from pesticide, the bees have their brood comb completely replaced within 45 days, or they get shaken out immediately in front of other week hives in the isolation yard when first brought in.

I'm learning as fast as my brain will go, making a lot of mistakes, but doing pretty well. By and large 3/4ths of my hives are big and thriving.

Thanks for prodding me. ....Don

[Roland]

Until you find a method of cleansing old equipment that has been contaminated, I do not see you plan as economicaly feasible. You will be fine, until you catch one of the diseases. It appears that in a commercial setting, the rate of spread is about a factor of 4 with deep supers, more with mediums and shallows. It is tied to how many supers you add to a hive every year. One hive with CCD will have it's supers spread to 4 other hives if you add 4 supers per season.

they get shaken out immediately in front of other week hives in the isolation yard when first brought in.

Another method of spreading disease.

Now if you have the ability to build your own wood working equipment, and competitively build your own supers and frames, then you will prove me wrong.

Crazy ROland

[Solomon Parker]

What about if you leave supers on year 'round?

Roland, you're the only one I ever hear complaining about CCD. Why is that? I'm asking seriously.

[oblib]

What about if you leave supers on year 'round?

Wouldnt that be too much space for the winter if the supers were empty?

[Specialkayme]

What about if you leave supers on year 'round?

Greater issues with SHB & wax moths

[Solomon Parker]

Wouldnt that be too much space for the winter if the supers were empty?

First of all, how is this off topic? If supers are on year 'round, then issues with disease in a treatment free apiary are reduced because equipment are exchanged between hives. That's on topic.

Secondly, now that we've established that we're still on topic, what's the result of too much space? In other words, And? But? So? Therefore?

Greater issues with SHB & wax moths

It's a great theory, I've seen it written in a few books, but I haven't seen any evidence of it. And since I'm one of the handful of people in the nation who do it on any sort of scale and consistency, that's significant.


Let's explore this as a possible solution to Mr. Semple's so-called disease issue that Roland keeps bringing up. It seems like a valid discussion to me. Can it be done? Will it work? Does he have anything to worry about from the predicted epidemic?

[oblib]

First of all, how is this off topic? If supers are on year 'round, then issues with disease in a treatment free apiary are reduced because equipment are exchanged between hives. That's on topic.

Secondly, now that we've established that we're still on topic, what's the result of too much space? In other words, And? But? So? Therefore?

I just thought we were getting off the topic of his business plan, but anyhow, remember I'm a first yr beek so that was an honest question. Can you leave that much empty space above the bees going into winter? Wasn't worried about shb and waxmoth, you could take the honey off late enough that it wouldn't be an issue here. Without spending some hrs thinking about it I just would worry that they may move up onto empty comb chasing the rising warmth and starve.

[Almondralf]

So Don, if I get those numbers right you charged an average of $788.- for a removal this year ? (13400/17).

[adam@azapiaries]

Remenber one thing, You are a second year Beekeeper. You will never know more about Beekeeping then you do at this time! Wait till next year when you start down the slide of dissilusionment!

[Stevebeeman]

Don,

I have a 5 year cashflow excel spreadsheet that we use with our beekeeping clients. It will take very little modification to fit your business plan, if you have Excel I'll be happy to send you a copy of the spreadsheet.

I'll need your email address, mine is shousebee@gmail.com

As a side note regarding post 28, regarding CCD I too would like to know about how it spreads. We keep up on the latest research, but haven't heard that anyone knows how it spreads. Sounds like a new topic for you to start Roland.

[Roland]

Sol asked:

Roland, you're the only one I ever hear complaining about CCD. Why is that? I'm asking seriously.

Because I am the only American commercial beekeeper here that does not sell his bees in fall? Note that I excluded Oldtimer and Honeyhouseholder. Reread the part about the rate of pathogen spread in a commercial situation.

As for leaving the supers on the hive, you would have to number all the supers, and sort them to return them to the correct hive after extracting. Effective but costly. A decontamination system for all supers AFTER extraction is more feasible(hint hint hint). Besides, you would have to store them under the brood chamber in northern climates, or the condensation would be a major problem. Then the problem is wax moths in the spring, until the bees can cover them like they can now.

Crazy Roland

[Che Guebuddha]

Don, this sounds like my kind of business plan. I like it. I wish you victory. And remember, victory favors the prepared.

just to add off topic

I cant remember which swedsih atlete said this to the press when he won, but it goes like this "The harder I practice the more lucky I get"

Good luck with your plan

[Specialkayme]

It's a great theory, I've seen it written in a few books, but I haven't seen any evidence of it.

I have.

[D Semple]

Until you find a method of cleansing old equipment that has been contaminated, I do not see you plan as economicaly feasible. You will be fine, until you catch one of the diseases. It appears that in a commercial setting, the rate of spread is about a factor of 4 with deep supers, more with mediums and shallows. It is tied to how many supers you add to a hive every year. One hive with CCD will have it's supers spread to 4 other hives if you add 4 supers per season.

Now if you have the ability to build your own wood working equipment, and competitively build your own supers and frames, then you will prove me wrong.

Crazy ROland

You hit me between the eyes with this post thanks. Hadn't occurred to me frame exchange when rotating supers would spread desease and even be an issue. Worked in a large cattle feedyard for 7 years when I was a young man, I understand some of the stresses crowding causes. I'll work on my plan and get back to you.

Primed and painted Mediums cost me about $5.25 to build, Frames about $.28



Your going to look funny at Lambeau wearing red.