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Is SC business plan, small sell?

19K views 90 replies 18 participants last post by  Roland 
#1 ·
Oldtimer makes some good points and they are points I have carefully avoided because I respect the attempts that many are making to be treatment free but since it's out there I do think the issue of whether there is actually any successful business model out there of a profitable self sustaining treatment free operation for those actually wanting to make a living at it. I'm talking about someone who is earning a living by selling honey, bees or pollination income and not the side businesses of writing, teaching or lecturing about being treatment free. I don't mean this in any way as a criticism of those folks and their passion for keeping bees as they see fit, I just think the question of economic viability is a fair one to be addressed on this forum if perhaps not in this particular thread.
 
#2 · (Edited)
You wiley devil Barry. Oh well what can I say? The words are mine. Incoming!!!!!!
Actually in re-reading the SC exchange I missed your question to me, no matter hope it turns out to be a constructive thread.
 
#3 ·
I believe it is possible for a FEW individuals to make a profit of adequate size to support themselves solely from treatment free beekeeping. Unfortunately, with CCD, it will be quite difficult for those that are not adept at epidemic control and sterilization techniques. "We ain't in Kansas any more". Mites alone are not that big a deal, it is getting past CCD and being treatment free, that is the tough nut to crack.

It will help if that individual can bring allot of family history, and family experience, to help with the sell. Of course, the target clientele will not be blue collar, but rather the "carriage trade" , and the honey priced accordingly.

I see no future in treatment free pollination. No one would pay extra for it, that I am aware of.

Did that sound too much like "Mein Kampf"?

Crazy Roland
 
#4 ·
Well, I've often had the same question. I don't get my income from bees, so this isn't something I have to be concerned about. But you and other's certainly do. Dee is the only one I know of actually making their living off of SC beekeeping. What are the real numbers? I don't know. Not sure how one in your situation could realistically convert over.
 
#7 ·
Is this the place... where it would not be too negative - to ask about the nature of the Lusby operation? Is her primary source of income Honey... Bees... or is she mainly involved with lecturing, writing, or something else we might not define as typical of a commercial operation. I am not asking this with any kind of agenda... just that if there is an SC commercial operation of some type out there... then there is something to be learned.
 
#9 ·
Regarding Dee, she may receive revenue from side ventures (speaking, etc.), but selling her honey has been the main source when I last talked with her. Who knows if there are other side business interests (rental income, family monies, etc.). Then to get a real handle on things, one would have to know if that income is suitable for someone else's lifestyle. Lots of variables.
 
#12 ·
Regarding Dee, she may receive revenue from side ventures (speaking, etc.), but selling her honey has been the main source when I last talked with her.
So if you take away the honey... she goes bankrupt? That would tell me she has real skin in the game, and therefore a fully qualified commercial SC operation.
 
#13 ·
I wouldn't draw that conclusion. I have no idea what her situation is, but people can have all kinds of "other revenue" that would allow them to still be financially secure should their work slow down. Another factor is what kind of overhead does one have. A bad year would severely hurt a guy that has buildings and equipment he's paying on versus a guy who has it all paid for. Just too many variables.
 
#17 ·
I wouldn't draw that conclusion. I have no idea what her situation is, but people can have all kinds of "other revenue" Just too many variables.
Yea,,, I agree. It is definitely a qualitative judgement. The more I hear.. the more I suspect.. that she would fit into that category I would call a Commercial SC Bee Keeper.

Now if someone comes up with a migratory SC one... , but I just don't see how they could exist.
 
#14 ·
The underlying question is whether or not small cell is viable in a commercial operation. The corollary question is whether the cost of treatments can be offset by conversion to small cell.

Small cell is just as viable as large cell in a commercial operation. Essentially, there is no cost to converting to small cell given that you work with the bees to get them down to the size and that you do not spend up front for the conversion. In other words, as combs need renewal, do it with small cell and the expense is the same as it would have been with large cell.

If you can run the small cell operation entirely treatment free, then obviously you forego the cost of treatments. This means you can avoid roughly $15 per colony per year in up front cost of treatments (labor plus materials) and you can avoid the long term but hard to quantify effects that treatments have on the bees.

From my perspective, I really enjoy being able to produce honey without putting dangerous chemicals in the hive.

DarJones
 
#20 ·
Small Cell / Treatment free / Natural beekeeping and maximizing profits are completely different goals and in direct opposition to each other.
I would not put them in direct opposition. I would consider them to not be aligned but not opposed. The reason is that maximizing profits inherently involves doing things that just don't happen in a natural colony. For example, it is not natural for a colony to be packed up on a truck and moved 500 miles four times in a year to get pollination rental. It is also not natural for bees to work a single floral source for several weeks because that is the only food available. These are what commercial beekeepers do to make a profit. It is not what bees do under natural conditions.

Said another way, I make enough honey to consider my bees to be profitable. I just don't try to maximize profits to the detriment of the bees.

DarJones
 
#21 ·
Ok let’s look at this for a minute

If a commercial beek rotates old comb as needed and switch to SC in the process. And does everything else the same like treatments...

This should not cost the commercial beek any more money or work. Five years down the road the beek will have all small cell and the option to skip a treatment if they want or continue treatment. I would think just to have the option would be a bonus. Maybe skip treatment on 1/4 of the hive each year. Or just continue to treat and have the possibility of allot less mites during a flow and during non treatment times.

Why would a Commercial Beek not want to do that???
 
#23 ·
You can't just stick a couple of frames of SC foundation into a LC hive and expect the comb to be drawn out to match the sc.
Why not?

Yes, I'm asking this somewhat facetiously.

What if you had a source of queens that were from adapted small cell colonies and you requeened 100 colonies that are on large cell combs with the small cell queens. Could the resulting workers properly draw out small cell?

I am looking for an answer to this question and should have enough information to draw some conclusions early next spring.

DarJones
 
#24 ·
Barry wrote:

You can't just stick a couple of frames of SC foundation into a LC hive and expect the comb to be drawn out to match the sc.

From our experiences, as stated before. with a strong hive and a good flow, they drew out 5.1 as well as LC, and drew 4.9 , but not perfect. I guess the old adage "personal results may vary" applies here.

The bigger issue I see is that last time I checked, SC foundation was more expensive than LC. That may have changed. Commercial beekeepers are in it to make money. Until a study shows that they can save money on treatments, they will be reluctant to spend extra money for SC.

Crazy Roland
 
#28 ·
I went to the Miller Bee website but did not see indications of the cell sizes in the descriptions. Is there something I am missing?
I am looking for wax coated plastic foundation that is 4.9mm Black preferred.
 
#29 ·
Miller only seems to sell Pierco as far as plastic foundation goes, and it is not 4.9.

But let's get back to the topic. I have a question. Does this hypothetical need to pay the salary and bills and everything, or can it just stand alone in black ink of its own accord? It's been my goal for a long time to make some profit, and I think I am finally after nine years of beekeeping poised to do that. I have all the equipment I need to house the number of hives I want, I have production hives, I have drawn comb, I've started selling nucs, and if I don't buy that motor for my extractor, I think I can do it.
 
#31 ·
Miller only seems to sell Pierco as far as plastic foundation goes, and it is not 4.9.

But let's get back to the topic. I have a question. Does this hypothetical need to pay the salary and bills and everything, or can it just stand alone in black ink of its own accord? it.
I suppose anyone that files a schedule F that shows a profit is certainly free to speak and tell their story but I was thinking more along the lines of a full time stand alone operation. Seems like if someone is truly having success spending half their time that it should be a natural progression that at some point they would be doing it full time. I know that their are a number of sideline operators that post on Beesource and I would presume some of them do quite well but they are the exception in this era. It seems to me the only real way to gauge the economic success of a particular operation is if they have to rely solely on their bees for their financial well being.
 
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