Is there a way to drive bees out of a house wall and their nest of brood without kil.

[100 td]

When an owner wants bees gone, is there something you could squirt into the wall to drive them out and make them leave their brood behind. I doubt it but I ask. An owner has bees in his wall, they were in the lower floor garage ceiling space but tried a cutout from the garage and the main hive is actually in the wall, even though they enter the floor space first. They obviously built up in the wall then moved into the floor with lots of fresh comb. He wants them gone but has health problems/concerns and doesn't want chemicals sprayed into the wall. I suggested a pyrethrin or similar if he can live with that and spray a bit in each day and knock them over.
He thought of finding the top of the hive in the wall and drilling a few small holes and squirt something in to drive them out. I thought they will just move to the next wall cavity etc.
Is there something that will drive them out without killing them, will they leave their brood? I expect the Beego/beequick/honey robber products will just drive them down, but not make them ALL pack their bags.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

If the owner will let you, you can trap them out, using a swarm trap, or cone funnel method. May be hard to save them this time of year, unless your weather is warm. (Not sure what your weather is like in Australia, NSW).

Swarm Harvesters, and the cone funnel method can weaken the hive (by removing bees) and the parent colony will die. With a Swarm Harvester you can very often get the queen, and that will doom the colony (unless they can make themselves another one.) Comb will be left behind, so unless you seal off all entrances, next time feral bees in the area swarm, another colony may take up residence there. These methods normally take six weeks to three months for removal results. In the process you might get yourself a couple (or more) new starts, if your weather permits. Trap outs are common and there are lots of suggestions on this forum.

I certainly don't recommend Bee Go in a wall in an occupied house.

cchoganjr

[Paul McCarty]

A cut-out is just about the only sure-fire way to get them. The comb MUST be removed. Bees can smell it from a long way off and others will simply move in.

[dixiebooks]

I think Paul is right. do a proper cutout. Go to youtube and watch all the vids from "jpthebeeman" - that will let you know what to do and how to do it. I certainly would not suggest pyrethrin or any such thing. That will lead to further complications, IMO.

You are in your spring right now, aren't you?

-james

[Acebird]

Swarm Harvesters, and the cone funnel method can weaken the hive (by removing bees) and the parent colony will die. With a Swarm Harvester you can very often get the queen, and that will doom the colony (unless they can make themselves another one.)

Can you explain what a swarm harvester is?

[Paul McCarty]

I believe he is speaking of the Hogan Swarm Harvester, if I remember the name correctly. It is a small nuc hive with a hole in the back and a trapdoor you can close to close off the hole. Walter Kelley sells them, or you can just experiment like I did, and build your own.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

By all means ,build your own. Postage would cost a fortune. If you can't get the instructions, from the Kelly Website, e-mail me at cchoganjr@scrtc.com, and I will e-mail them to you. There is no charge for these.

cchoganjr

[Jaseemtp]

Cleo do a search on beemaster for trap outs. There is alot of info and videos there on how to do a trap out. If you are a beekeeper and have a frame of eggs to spare you could easily start 1,2, or 3 more hives off the trap out. It is less work than a cut out but does take longer. here is a link to a youtube video. Hope this helps. Also I was reading a post yesterday about another Aussie who is doing a trap out right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXVyS...eature=related

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Jaseempt.... I have done hundreds of cut outs, and trap outs. Do dozens each year. I developed the Swarm Harvester method that Kelly Bee Supply sells.

The thread was about how to remove bees without killing, and trapping is just one more method. Trapping, has it's limitations as explained in my post above ,one is, it will not get the comb, and feral bees are likely to repopulate the area unless entrances are sealed. So do a cut out if you can.

I totally agree that cut out is the way to go, but, lots of homeowners do not want sheetrock, boarding, siding, etc removed to get to the bees. And yes, I sometimes make four, five, or even six starts from a good cutout. Where the owner wants the colony removed, I have taken as high as nine starts from a tree before I weakened it enough that it died. I also have several trees, where the farmer will let me take two or three starts each year from his tree, (for a little honey of course, ha.) Just don't trap too aggressively and kill the colony. I allow the colony to rebuild before taking the next start. I leave the male transition on the tree year around, and place traps and remove as they get three to four pounds of bees on them.

We get all our nuc starts each year, to sell, from splitting brood stock hives.

Just viewed the video you posted. Excellent video, and is the same method I use in the Swarm Harvester. The only difference is, I place the tube opening, and the trap as close to the feral colony as possible, encase it all, so that the trap becomes an integral part of the colony. If you do this, and you place a frame of unsealed brood in the trap, you will get the queen, very often. Reason... When a queen learns there is new brood in her colony, she will come out into the trap to investigate. If you have drawn comb in the trap as in the video, she will start to lay in the trap, and will go back and forth between the trap and the feral colony until you close off the small funnel inside the trap. At that point, she can no longer go back and forth. If she is in the trap, the feral colony will die, ( unless there is viable egg in the feral colony, in which case they will make a new queen) but, this will be in vain, because no bees can get back to the feral source. As bees die, and no worker/field bees returning to the feral source, the hive has no nectar or pollen, it is weakened and it dies.

cchoganjr

[Paul McCarty]

Awesome! Straight from the horse's mouth!

[100 td]

I have already considered a trapout, however the problem is the paneling between the bricks and sheeting on his house is poor and there would be a zillion entrances that they could get in, even if all these external ones were blocked they can still fly in to the garage past the roller door opening at the top of the door which is 7 feet long and 4" wide, which they have also used already. Also they go thru the siding into the garage roof/upper floor space before they go into the wall above. So the chance of getting the queen to come out to the swarm harvester would be nil, even with fresh brood as she would not know it is out there a few feet away from her nest. The problem it the whole length of the house has a gap up into the wall from underneath so the bees can travel in and out from a multitude of places and move along the wall to other areas of wall and floor space.
A trapout makes sense, but I can't seal off all the entrances, however I may give it a go with hive screwed to the wall that they have to enter through, and maybe a cone entrance into the hive. However the possibility that the then fly around the corner and enter thru the garage is the real problem.
The owner needs access to the garage continually.
What he wants is to be able to expel them and try and make their environment stinky enough so they won't come back. Once the bees are gone, the outside stripping could be replaced and hopefully the bees wouldn't come back, especially if a repellent was squirted in the wall and on the floorboards and base of wall from inside the garage.
EDIT: Cleo, I have sent an email to you.

[tommyt]

Also I was reading a post yesterday about another Aussie who is doing a trap out right now.
]

Would that happen to bee Shane
If so he's done well and has started a second hive from that trapout
I am going to try CCHogans Box as the other trap-out has almost 100% negative queen catch
It makes Bee sense if the queen can walk from Ferrell comb out to Hive box comb
I can't wait for a call to try it.

Tommyt

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

You do have a problem. On multiple entrances I use black plastic to seal off entrances. I would recommend it over screen wire. Bees see through the screen and are confused about how to get out or in. With plastic, they quit looking at that entrance and look for another one. You are right, if the brood nest is several feet from the main entrance that you set the swarm harvester, it is more difficult to get the queen.

100td I am in Georgia today and won't be back to Kentucky until Thursday. I will send you the info when I get back. Can't access it from Georgia.

Let me know if I can help you.

cchoganjr

[Jaseemtp]

Yep Tommy it is shane and he is doing great with his trap out. I am glad he has posted his progress with videos for us to see.