Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46

Thread: Labor

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Davis,South Dakota,USA
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: Labor

    yes,workers comp is into play.and if they have a work visa they are fine.an H2A worker is normally through a brockered company,and cost big $$$$$$$.wish i could work for their wages.lol

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jasper, Texas, USA
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Labor

    I've used the h2A program for the past 10 years. Every year they add a hurtle or two. It actually feels normal now to scramble and find the documents that the DOL suddenly needs. You get 5 business days to respond to a request for information. I guess that's OK. But sometimes I'm 1000 miles away from my office.

    I just got my approval letter a week ago. For me the process was only a little bit harder than last year. Everyones expeirience is different, interpretation can cause problems. It seems we have new rules every year that no one is totally sure how to enforce.

    Both the ABF and AHPA have worked very hard over the past few years to change the process so it works better. I have heard that law makers have been willing to let us make any changes we want. Basically because we are not asking for any money. Every change can create a new problem. It seems we go 2 steps forward then1 step back. It can make your head spin. It's really scary if you decide to count on the h2a program to get things done.

    You guys are right. It's difficult and expensive. But it works just exactly the way you need it to work.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: Labor

    Awesome post Mike, agree 100% nothing more to add you pretty much nailed it
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    3,505

    Default Re: Labor

    Lets just keep applauding our guvmint as they extend unemployment to 99 weeks and wonder why no one will work! We all know the answer! The only people who work are those who were raised and educated to. It is very very simple to get people to work. The job must be a thing of value and not easily given up. The cost of giving it up has to be higher than spending another 99 weeks on unemployment welfare. All my life I did the work that americans just won't do! I know it is possible.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Faulkner Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    1,698

    Default Re: Labor

    in our area is is hard to find people willing to work in any area much less beekeeping. That said, extrememly hard. I have been able to procur help from students home from university, teach them all you know in a year and then they are gone. Some reliable some not very.
    Right now, when i need our pastor's wife, mother of 4, home schooler, will come out when needed. She is an information nut and loves working with the bees.
    On to extraction...can not get help in this area...to hot and humid in the honey house.
    We pay into workers comp...compusory even if you higher a local for one day to help vaccinate cows.
    The Canadian Honey Council is working on making it easier to employ foreigners. Still a long way to go though from what i have heard. As for us and our farm, we are not big enough to higher that kind of help

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,120

    Default Re: Labor

    Honeyshack, I know beekeepers in Alberta that hire Mexican workers legally. They come to work in April and go home when the season is over. The same workers come back year after year. If we had a workable program like that in the States, I'd take advantage of it.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    723

    Default Re: Labor

    I really know nothing about the H2A programs in the US, but I know a lot about the value added and committment of undocumented Latino labor and could tell you plenty of stories that would break your heart.
    I thought you on this thread might like to to see another farmer's take on this issue. I found his comment that he knew by lunch break on the first day that hiring locally was a mis calculation absolutely stunning.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/us...ant-labor.html

    Hiring Locally for Farm Work Is No Cure-All
    The New York Times, October 5, 2011
    By KIRK JOHNSON
    OLATHE, Colo. — How can there be a labor shortage when nearly one out of every 11 people in the nation are unemployed?
    That’s the question John Harold asked himself last winter when he was trying to figure out how much help he would need to harvest the corn and onions on his 1,000-acre farm here in western Colorado.
    The simple-sounding plan that resulted — hire more local people and fewer foreign workers — left Mr. Harold and others who took a similar path adrift in a predicament worthy of Kafka.
    The more they tried to do something concrete to address immigration and joblessness, the worse off they found themselves.
    “It’s absolutely true that people who have played by the rules are having the toughest time of all,” said Senator Michael Bennet, a Democrat from Colorado.
    Mr. Harold, a 71-year-old Vietnam War veteran who drifted here in the late ’60s, has participated for about a decade in a federal program called H-2A that allows seasonal foreign workers into the country to make up the gap where willing and able American workers are few in number. He typically has brought in about 90 people from Mexico each year from July through October.
    This year, though, with tough times lingering and a big jump in the minimum wage under the program, to nearly $10.50 hour, Mr. Harold brought in only two-thirds of his usual contingent. The other positions, he figured, would be snapped up by jobless local residents wanting some extra summer cash.
    “It didn’t take me six hours to realize I’d made a heck of a mistake,” Mr. Harold said, standing in his onion field on a recent afternoon as a crew of workers from Mexico cut the tops off yellow onions and bagged them.
    Six hours was enough, between the 6 a.m. start time and noon lunch break, for the first wave of local workers to quit. Some simply never came back and gave no reason. Twenty-five of them said specifically, according to farm records, that the work was too hard. On the Harold farm, pickers walk the rows alongside a huge harvest vehicle called a mule train, plucking ears of corn and handing them up to workers on the mule who box them and lift the crates, each weighing 45 to 50 pounds.
    “It is not an easy job,” said Kerry Mattics, 49, another H-2A farmer here in Olathe, who brought in only a third of his usual Mexican crew of 12 workers for his 50-acre fruit and vegetable farm, then struggled to make it through the season. “It’s outside, so if it’s wet, you’re wet, and if it’s hot you’re hot,” he said.
    Still, Mr. Mattics said, he can’t help feeling that people have gotten soft.
    “They wanted that $10.50 an hour without doing very much,” he said. “I know people with college degrees, working for the school system and only making 11 bucks.”
    A mismatch between employers’ requirements and the skills and needs of the jobless — repeated across industries — has been a constant theme of this recessionary era. But here on the farm, mismatch can mean high anxiety.
    The H-2A program, in particular, in trying to avoid displacing American citizens from jobs, strongly encourages farmers to hire locally if they can, with a requirement that they advertise in at least three states. That forces participants to take huge risks in guessing where a moving target might land — how many locals, how many foreigners — often with an entire season’s revenue at stake. Survival, not civic virtue, drives the equation, they say.
    “Farmers have to bear almost all the labor market risk because they must prove no one really was available, qualified or willing to work,” said Dawn D. Thilmany, a professor of agricultural economics at Colorado State University. “But the only way to offer proof is to literally have a field left unharvested.”
    Mr. Harold’s experience is a repeated refrain where farm labor is seasonal and population sparse. And even many immigration hard-liners have come to agree that the dearth of Americans willing to work the fields requires some sort of rethinking, at least, of the H-2A program. Indeed, Representative Lamar Smith of Texas, a conservative Republican, is pushing a bill that would greatly expand the number of foreign guest workers admitted to the country each year.
    In Colorado, the unemployment rate in many rural counties is also significantly lower than in the cities — two neighboring counties here, for example, had 5.5 percent and 6 percent unemployment rates in August, according to state figures, compared with 9.1 percent for the nation as a whole. The big increase in the wage rate for H-2A workers, meanwhile, up nearly $2.50 an hour — calculated by averaging what farmers had to pay last year — also suggests that labor demand was already rising.
    Mr. Harold usually hires about 50 local workers for the season — regulars who have worked summers for years — and most returned this year, he said. Finding new employees was where he ran into trouble. He was able to recover after the season started, he said, by rushing in another group of H-2A workers from Mexico.
    But the broader story of labor in agriculture, economists and historians said, is that through good times and bad and across socioeconomic lines, people who find better lives off the farm rarely return. Mr. Harold and other H-2A farmers said that most of the local residents who tried field work this summer, for example, were Hispanic, many of whom, they said, had probably immigrated in years past for agricultural work before taking better-paid jobs in construction or landscaping.
    Other farmers left in the lurch by local workers conceded that what they had to offer was a tough sell — full-time but temporary work. About 56,000 foreign workers came into the country with H-2A visas last year, according to the most recent federal figures, down from 60,000 in 2009.
    Heath Terrell is one of the few new local residents who stuck it out. Mr. Terrell, a former hay hauler, was hired to drive a corn truck. That job kept him out of the fields, and out of the sun. Now, as the season has shifted from corn to onions, Mr. Terrell, 42, said he might just stay on with Mr. Harold through the winter, or at least onion season.
    karla

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Labor

    Hi,
    My name is Lukas. I am from Poland. I have bees in Poland. I wanted to work in the U.S. but in beekeeping Pole can not go without a visa to the USA. It is very difficult to get a visa. The program h2a is only for the proffesions in which Americans do not want to work. Visa is issued for 3 years. How many money is paid per hour in beekeeping in the U.S., how many hours i can work per week?
    Sorry for the mistake in the language.

    Lukas

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,470

    Default Re: Labor

    Nothing wrong w/ your language. No worse than folks over here produce.

    I'm not hiring, but guys I sometimes work for pay $10.00 per hour and $15.00 per hour, plus lodging and meals. 40 hours work per week or more sometimes.

    Keep looking, you'll probably find someone to work for.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    1,821

    Default Re: Labor

    Does anyone hire with a base salary and bonus tied to production?
    Big honey check =Bonus?

    Don't Boo......Do any of the commercial outfits share the wealth and risk or pay by the job? ( amount of hives moved, treated,supered etc).

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,470

    Default Re: Labor

    I have heard of outfits that were so large that they would put a beekeeper in charge of 1,000 colonies each. There may be such outfits Mbeck. I don't know.

    Walter Kelley did that w/ his equipment business.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    5,018

    Default Re: Labor

    I dreamed of something like that when I decided to become a commercial. Sadly, it never materialized.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  13. #33

    Default Re: Labor

    And in the old days I worked for a company (not beekeeping) where the employees were given stock in the company based on the quarterly earnings. After a while most of the workers thought we owned the company and man alive did it ever boooommm! I started with them in 1976 and we had sales of about $10million. In 1999 we did just under a $billion. And I never heard anyone ever say ‘I’m not doing that….that’s not my job’.
    Ahhhh the good old days…..
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    1,821

    Default Re: Labor

    More carrot less stick.
    The right person motivated by a true share in profits can do amazing things.


    Of course finding that person is what this thread is about.

    $10.00 per hour doesn't appeal to the dreamer/thinker. I suspect many commercial guys are dreamers /thinkers.

    What are your goals for production. Split the profit of anything above and beyond those goals with those workers that have the responsibility of making decisions or directing those that affect productions.

    There are ways to give ownership to even the most laborious repetitive job where the owner and employee can share in increased profit.

    $10.00 per hour hard for hard labor won't make me loose sleep over your hives during a wind storm. I will worry about my own hives
    If I worked for anyone of you and you gave me 50 hives to manage as my own, I would kill myself tring to squeeze every nickel out of them.

    It's easy to speculate from the sidelines. Sorry I sound like .... Well you know who!
    Still back to finding the right person!

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Selby, SD, USA
    Posts
    219

    Default Re: Labor

    every state has a set rate for H2A workers which the employer MUST pay. actually the employer is also required to run a help wanted ad in a local newspaper in order to recieve H2A workers. guess it at least looks like you are trying to get local help that way but guess what?? never recieved any phone calls from anyone wanting a job for those ads lol. most of our workers are paid between $10-12/hr, some of them live for free in houses that my dad owns. he pays all the utilities, helps them out when the are in a jam, and gives them somewhat of a bonus if they come back the next year. sounds like fair wages to me. trouble with giving your employees hives of their own, how do you keep track of everything? how do u decide what is fair? how are they to have equipment and everything else associated with keeping bees? not saying it cant be done but certainly not as easily as one would think.
    Greg Stahlman; Stahlman Apiaries Inc.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: Labor

    Giving up ownership to a new hire as an incentive to hire on would be a bit crazy. You can give incentive with a production based bonus without giving up ownership. The potential of ownership is something that should be earned by showing your dedication over a long period of time. I know of a number of operations that are now owned by longtime loyal employees who were given the chance after years of hard work.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: Labor

    Letting someone run your hives for a share of the profits reminds me a bit of the long ago days of "Share Cropping" in these parts. I am old enough to remember the last of the days... it was a hard life... doubt we will go back to it.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    5,018

    Default Re: Labor

    What about a guaranteed minimum salary and share of profits?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    dadeville, alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,163

    Default Re: Labor

    We have used H2A's in the past. Had to provide them with adequate housing. In this case it is an apartment that is fully furnished. That has to pass inspection. You have to have workman's comp. You have to pay the H2A wage for your state. You have to provide them transportation to and from. We used Russian beekeepers and so I will not sound racist-Boer South Africans. Somewhere, somehow these people have a work ethic instilled in them. I can not get local people to work as hard as they do. Nor do they complain. And they have in the past even come up to me and asked what else can they do. I read earlier in the post that Greg states that the government is going to make it difficult to even hire H2A help. I reckon I will have to arrange with the local docters office to piss test half the entire local population to find one person that is not strung out on god know's what. And then there is the next big question-will they even work. TED
    ALABAMA BEE COMPANY-A member of the Sioux Honey association -*Sweetening a golden tommorrow*

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Selby, SD, USA
    Posts
    219

    Default Re: Labor

    i will say that most of the H2A south africans we have hired are bust. think we have tried about 12 or so in the last 7 years and only 2 have been really good workers. most of them have turned out to be pretty boy city slickers looking for a ticket to america. they didnt like to do manual labor or get dirty. my opinion is dont sign up for the program if you dont expect to work. and Ted is right i forgot to mention the items you must furnish H2A workers. and dont forget they get full take home pay also, so they make a great wage
    Greg Stahlman; Stahlman Apiaries Inc.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads