Labor

[sqkcrk]

Kim Flottum had an Editorial on this in Decembers' "Bee Culture". And I had a discussion w/ my insurance agent yesterday concerning workers comp. when I hardly employ anyone for more than a week or ten days a year. But that's another Topic.

Are you finding it harder and harder to find help working bees? I have a cpl of friends who have Mexicans working for them. Another guy I know has Russians. The Russians were beekeepers when they came. I don't know how any of these people initially got together.

I'd be interested in hearing what your workforce is like. Is it all just family? Or have you been able to find adequate help outside the family? What ahve your experiences been like?

[Beeslave]

I havent had any trouble. I had a list of people needing work that wanted to help extract. The list of people actually wanting to help in the bees was smaller but I always had help when needed. None of them illegals or relatives.

[Gregg]

I haven't had to hire any help (yet). I do virtually all the bee work and the family helps at extracting time (though that may be changing soon, as kids are 20, 18, & 17). Don't know if the wife & I can (or want to) handle all the extracting by ourselves, but not looking forward to trying to hire some part-time temporary employees. We'll see what happens over the next couple of years.

[sqkcrk]

None of them illegals or relatives.

I never mentioned illegals. I don't know anyone employing those. Maybe you just assumed something not stated or implied. Or maybe you read Kims' editorial.

[rainesridgefarm]

It is hard to find help. Most people want $15+ an hour to work and I can not hire someone for that wage scale. I have a few freinds that are hobbiest that will come out for a day or two to put supers on but that is about it. mostly to learn how to keep bees but sometimes they slow me down. When I am pulling honey is really when I need the help and then it is like pulling teeth. then when they do help pull after the first time working with me they know not to pick up the phone in August if it is me calling. At bee meetings most will talk about how they almost died trying to keep up with me. It is hard work and you have to love it to do it.

[sqkcrk]

What about $10.00/hr? Would you pay that? What about Workers Comp. Ins. to cover liabilities? Do you carry that?

[wildbranch2007]

i don't hire people, but it was my understanding that farms don't have to carry workers comp. , the stable down the street doesn't I know. I'll have to look around.

wrong again
Workers' compensation insurance is not required for farms that have less than $1,200 of payroll in the preceding calendar year. Coverage must be obtained effective April 1st of the year immediately following the year where the farm had $1,200 of payroll.

The spouse and minor children (under 18 years old) of a farmer are NOT counted as employees under the WCL as long as they are NOT under an express contract of hire.

If a farm labor contractor recruits or supplies farm laborers for work on a farm, such farm laborers are generally deemed employees of the farmer

[sqkcrk]

Well Mike, there is what is required by Law and what is prudent to do. The intelligent thing to do.

If y'all hire day laborers, how do you protect yourself from Liability, should that person you picked up for the day get hurt? I know he is in the business of selling Insurance, but my Insurance Agent says I should have "employees" give me their SS#, that I should have a payroll agreement and a W2 for each one.

[gregstahlman]

my understanding hearing through the grapevine that the government is making it nearly impossibly to hire H2A workers next season. dept of labor is reqiring that you fill out intineries for every location of bees and also have land owners sign some form stating that there will be foreign laborers on their property. i have also heard that custom combiners are having to do this. RIDICULOUS!!!!!

[sqkcrk]

What if they aren't H2A workers? Are all Mexicans w/ work visas H2As? I don't know anything about these details.

[Beeslave]

I never mentioned illegals. I don't know anyone employing those. Maybe you just assumed something not stated or implied

You referred to them as Mexicans not Americans As a Sole Proprieter....a Umbrella policy should cover any accidental injury to a friend "helping" you on your property or property you "lease". As for the "wage" issue.....friends don't "expect" wages but they always accept "gifts"

[sqkcrk]

No problemo Beeslave. Yo soy muy, ah, what the hey, I understand how one could draw the conclusion.

So, you figure that my Farm Liability Coverage aught to cover any mishaps? I wonder if the Ins. Co. would see it that way? Or if a Judge would?

When I work bees for friends I expect wages, don't you? Though only one sends me a check and takes out all necassary deductions.

[Barry]

a Umbrella policy should cover any accidental injury to a friend "helping" you on your property or property you "lease". As for the "wage" issue.....friends don't "expect" wages but they always accept "gifts"

It should in your eyes, but it won't in the eyes of the insurer. If you're giving instructions to your "help" and they are doing what you want them to do, they are working for you and no longer a "friend", but a hired hand. If hired hand does not have his own tools and equipment doing a job you sub out, they are your employee. If they are a subcontractor, then they are required to have insurance. You can fool the system all day long until something happens.

[hpm08161947]

my understanding hearing through the grapevine that the government is making it nearly impossibly to hire H2A workers next season. dept of labor

H2A is a dominant force in our rural area. Seems like all the very hard agricultural work is done by these people. From April to sept we are surrounded by 100s of them. I have no idea how the work will get done without them. The "Natives" just seem unwilling to do this type of work... anymore.... doesn't seem to matter about the wage. An H2a worker receives nearly $10 per hour and works many hours. I know some of these guys who are using their H2A money buy ranches back home in Mexico.

[rainesridgefarm]

Then we wonder why we have the fattest people in the world and 9% unemployment. No one wants to work hard and sweat any more. I helped/worked with a commercial outfit in SW Wisconsin and they looked at beekeeping like a olympic sport. They worked hard and fast and the sweat just poured off me. People need to get off their butts and put in a hard days work or a months work. I talked to my insurance agent about setting up a company that brings corprate employees out to do team building in the bee yard and work there butts off. 1200 a month for insurance but a great idea he thought.

[Michael Palmer]

Mark, I have to agree with Kim. Help is near impossible to find. I've been hiring workers for 30+ years. I've had all kinds...drunks, drug addicts, criminals, high school grads, college grads, folks on unemployment. The problem as I see it is work ethic. No one really wants to work anymore...now I'm gonna get it. You give folks a job and most Americans think it's an entitlement. They don't know or care much about production. They don't know what it means to give a day's work for a day's pay.

Take extracting honey. I hire field help all season long. Pay what I think a good wage...$13.50-16.00/hr. Workers Comp provided. Housing for anyone I have to bring in from out of state. I can't afford to keep on two folks all summer so I'll have bodies to help with the extracting, so I hire part timers. With my extracting setup we can do 6 drums a day. In the last 30 years, that total has been reached only on a few days. The rest of the time it's 3-4. That's loading each extractor once an hour...not difficult. When I questioned one crew whay they only extract 42 mediums in a day they quit. Typical. Find a mirror in the bathroom and you know why. Or a pile of Genney cans out back.

Two summer ago I said Blank it, and hired two Mexicans...undocumented. From day one until the crop was finished they did 6 drums. Every day. Where the "recommended as great help" Americans could only cut 250 cut combs a day...and that with sticky fingerprints, hair and ladybugs in packaging...the Mexicans cut and packaged 650-750 cuts a day...perfectly clean and square. This year I hired an undocumented Mexican for extracting working alongside a local. What a joke. Horacio was pleasant, respectful, greatful, and exceptional help. The Blanco is foul tempered, demanding, and dis-respectfully, stuffs a cigarette in his face 24 hours a day. While the Blanco can only mix a barrel and a half of syrup all day long with F this and F that, Horacio mixes 4 barrels in the morning and empties 5 into feeders in the afternoon. Followed by...Hey Patron, quiere Horacio para trabajar mass ahora?

But now it's getting too scary to give these folks a job. As Greg says, the H2A program is a joke. The Employment Office...[I]The office of unemployable opportunities[I] is likewise. I think so much of Horacio that I would send him back toMexico and get him papers legally. Good luck Mike.

You folks that think the Mexicans are here to take advantage of our system and wellfare and healthcare and unemployment have got it wrong. They don't want to be Americans any more than you want to be a Mexican. They want a job to provide for the family back in Mexico. These guys havn't seen their families in many years. They send all their money home. Horacio met his wife in New Jersey but sent her back to Chiapas with their two US born children to take care of his mother. One more year with US employment and his "casa de concreto" will be finished in Chiapas, and he can go home. Maybe see his mother again before she passes. Would you live that way? Would you sneak across the border at Ogdensburg, NY if your family was hungry and you couldn't find a job in Brashers Falls, NY? You bet you would. So would everyone else here.

I'm not asking to be allowed to hire undocumented aliens. I'm asking to have access to quality employees that know and want to work hard for their pay. Allow me to bring in the help I need that no one here in the states wants to do.

[hpm08161947]

Two summer ago I said Blank it, and hired two Mexicans...undocumented. From day one until the crop was finished they did 6 drums. Every day. Where the "recommended as great help" Americans could only cut 250 cut combs a day...and that with sticky fingerprints, hair and ladybugs in packaging...the Mexicans cut and packaged 650-750 cuts a day...perfectly clean and square. This year I hired an undocumented Mexican for extracting working alongside a local. What a joke. Horacio was pleasant, respectful, greatful, and exceptional help. The Blanco is foul tempered, demanding, and dis-respectfully, stuffs a cigarette in his face 24 hours a day.

I have walked down this same path... and I must say the scenary is the same. In other words I agree with you 100%. I can tell almost identical stories. I suppose nearly all our hispanics are illegals... except for the H2A workers, I can only imagine what will happen if certain political factions have their way.

[TWall]

When I was back at home we would hire one or two Mexican's during planting season. I sat next to them on a vegetable transplanter. I would work as fast as I could to keep up. If you looked at them they looked like they were taking it easy. We ended up hiring one for two years, April-Oct. He would go home each winter. His father plowed with oxen. He saved enough money to buy some land and get married. We would have to hire twice as many "locals" to do the job.

This also ended up generating a lot of business. We ended up planting several acres of hot peppers and tomatillos. They would come and pick bushels and bushels.

If I were to ever get to the point where I needed to hire help, that will be never, I'd look to the Amish.

Tom

[gregstahlman]

WOW Mike that was like poetry!!!!!!!

[BEESERIOUS]

Mike I know exactly what you mean and I agree 100% on everything you said
I used to admired you for all your contributions to this forum, now I admire you even more.

James