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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI, USA
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Well said. Reminds me of a raw milk study. 2 stainless steel vats of milk were tested. One was pasturized and one was raw milk straight from the cow. E coli was introduced into each vat and a short time later the milk was tested in each vat. The pasturized milk was rampant with e coli and the raw milk had no trace. Like Mr. Bush said, "the proper microbes will displace pathogens" and this study proved it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    My problem with trying to answer it is, in 37 years I have never used it. Asking me how do you "make it without Fumidil-B" is like asking someone in a primitive village how can they possibly live without air conditioning...

    But I think the real answer is that a natural system with the proper microbes will displace pathogens, where a system that is driven by antibiotics will have all kinds of issues as those beneficial and benign microbes have been wiped out.
    To find out more about me go to
    www.broomsbylittlejohn.com

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,241

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    A few years back when nosema ceranae became the "disease de jour" the thinking among many commercials was that you weren't being prudent if you weren't treating. I have treated with fumidil, I have "treated" with HBH and I have not treated at all. I have seen really mixed results. I have come to the conclusion that nosema is so fickle and hard to accurately test for (and yes I have a microscope) that dollars spent treating nosema may not be dollars well spent at all. The conundrum is that to be effective you must treat the winter cluster which requires a fairly late application which in itself can be problematic. Throw in the potential for breeding strains of fumidil resistant nosema and I think a pretty good case can be made for no treatment perhaps being the best treatment.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    I think the point here is, simply, a number of people are not using anything prophylactically against Nosema and are not experiencing any significant losses from Nosema (or maybe not even seeing any symptoms of Nosema at all). Absolutely, I expect losses to be significant if/when Nosema infects yard. But the loss percentage cited, I believe, is for hives infected with Nosema ceranae. And treating for any pest or pathogen when that organism is not even present must take into consideration 1) the potential for that pest or pathogen to become a problem in the amount of time that the treatment will remain effective, and, 2) the potential for resistance to develop and how quickly that resistance will develop from use of a treatment.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    294

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Thanks for all your replies.
    Good enough is perfect - Joel Salatin

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