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How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

11K views 23 replies 13 participants last post by  sammyjay 
#1 ·
Hi, I was wondering how you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B? I live in a place that has long, cold winters and can have cold, damp springs and falls, which from what I've read encourages nosema.

Nathan
 
#14 ·
My question on resistance management stems from the presumption in the question originally asked in this thread how anyone "not treating" bees could possibly get by without applying a medication preemptively. That presumption seems based on a belief that all hives are equally inoculated and equally susceptible to a pathogen, or that hives should at least be medicated for that belief. From a massive medication regimen, resistance management should always be a consideration.

You're correct, it likely doesn't belong in a "treatment-free" thread, but the entire topic maybe doesn't belong in this section.
 
#16 ·
So if the question (minus the presumptions) does not belong in this forum. Where does it belong?
I read the OP as inquiring how to be able to stop treating. So far the answer seems to be to let the bees die. Sounds to me like the answer to never having any of the problems associated with beekeeping is to not keep bees. and this sort of problem solving is supposed to be admired, why?
 
#18 ·
I think the real point here, Daniel, is that simply applying a medication like this isn't really necessary. I've never used this particular product, and I haven't experienced any problems with Nosema. (I do not consider my beekeeping practices to be "treatment-free," and I would use various methods in beekeeping if conditions warranted.) Other beekeepers in this thread have already stated that they do not use this product and do not suffer losses from the target organism.
 
#19 ·
Wow, you guys read alot more into his question than I did. I believe he has a valid point. How do you control a know pathogen Nosema, without using any treatments (per the definitions here)? For you that have not experienced Nosema, it can have a 90 percent winter mortality rate in northern climates. That is unsustainable. With mites being a vector, I expect all of you to experience it soon.

The answer may lie in irradiation, an expensive method. I do not believe it is considered a treatment on your list, because you are not treating the bees, but rather the hive that the bees have been in.

SOl- IS my prediction starting to make more sense?

Crazy ROland
 
#20 ·
My problem with trying to answer it is, in 37 years I have never used it. Asking me how do you "make it without Fumidil-B" is like asking someone in a primitive village how can they possibly live without air conditioning...

But I think the real answer is that a natural system with the proper microbes will displace pathogens, where a system that is driven by antibiotics will have all kinds of issues as those beneficial and benign microbes have been wiped out.
 
#21 ·
Well said. Reminds me of a raw milk study. 2 stainless steel vats of milk were tested. One was pasturized and one was raw milk straight from the cow. E coli was introduced into each vat and a short time later the milk was tested in each vat. The pasturized milk was rampant with e coli and the raw milk had no trace. Like Mr. Bush said, "the proper microbes will displace pathogens" and this study proved it.
 
#22 ·
A few years back when nosema ceranae became the "disease de jour" the thinking among many commercials was that you weren't being prudent if you weren't treating. I have treated with fumidil, I have "treated" with HBH and I have not treated at all. I have seen really mixed results. I have come to the conclusion that nosema is so fickle and hard to accurately test for (and yes I have a microscope) that dollars spent treating nosema may not be dollars well spent at all. The conundrum is that to be effective you must treat the winter cluster which requires a fairly late application which in itself can be problematic. Throw in the potential for breeding strains of fumidil resistant nosema and I think a pretty good case can be made for no treatment perhaps being the best treatment.
 
#23 ·
I think the point here is, simply, a number of people are not using anything prophylactically against Nosema and are not experiencing any significant losses from Nosema (or maybe not even seeing any symptoms of Nosema at all). Absolutely, I expect losses to be significant if/when Nosema infects yard. But the loss percentage cited, I believe, is for hives infected with Nosema ceranae. And treating for any pest or pathogen when that organism is not even present must take into consideration 1) the potential for that pest or pathogen to become a problem in the amount of time that the treatment will remain effective, and, 2) the potential for resistance to develop and how quickly that resistance will develop from use of a treatment.
 
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