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  1. #1
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    May 2011
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    Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan, Canada
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    Question How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Hi, I was wondering how you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B? I live in a place that has long, cold winters and can have cold, damp springs and falls, which from what I've read encourages nosema.

    Nathan
    Good enough is perfect - Joel Salatin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    I noticed which hives seemed to have poop around and on them last winter and didn't increase from those hives.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
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    1,131

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    The most prevalent nosema is N. ceranae according to stats. Fecal marking of hive fronts is the typical tattle tale of N. Apis. but usually not seen with ceranae. I would be interested to hear how most people discover it is affecting them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,742

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    In 37 years of beekeeping, I've never used fumidil. Living without it has never been an issue. Neither has Nosema. Sometimes after confinement there is some dysentery, but that' s normal.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnosema.htm
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,812

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    That is the 64,000 dollar question, or at least what the answer will cost.

    Nosema ceranae seems to kill every time, Nosema apis, very little. Don't breed from dead hives.

    Crazy Roland

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    4,194

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    I'm in a much warmer climate, but from what I've heard N. ceranae doesn't need the damp weather.
    Last 2 winters we've only lost one hive. Don't have a microscope to check nosema levels Though. Took 7 into winter last year.
    Dan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Don't breed from dead hives.
    That's basically it.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mammoth Cave, KY
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    151

    Thumbs Up Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    That is the 64,000 dollar question, or at least what the answer will cost.

    Nosema ceranae seems to kill every time, Nosema apis, very little. Don't breed from dead hives.

    Crazy Roland
    I agree 100%
    Poppy's Bees, Queens, and Honey
    Mammoth Cave, KY

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
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    7,107

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Good genetics. Buckfast bees were overwintered in nucs in a cold wet environment. Survivors were bred. Losers were culled.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan, Canada
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    294

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Thanks for your replies all. I have a carniolon hive that didn't get as much fumidil-b as it should, and if it makes it through the winter and spring maybe I'll breed from it.
    Good enough is perfect - Joel Salatin

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Winhall, VT
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    1,066

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Treatment Free = No Treatments

    Fumidil-B = Treatment

    Therefore . . .

    Treatment Free beekeepers don't use Fumidil-B ever.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Volga, SD
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    2,790

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    I'm left scratching my head over this thread. How does treating every hive with a product on the off chance that it might come down with a disease fit into a plan to prevent resistance to that treatment?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Naturally, the answer would be that it doesn't.

    Why do you ask? Resistance to treatments isn't the topic, nor would it be in the Treatment-Free Beekeeping forum.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #14
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    Dec 2005
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    Volga, SD
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    My question on resistance management stems from the presumption in the question originally asked in this thread how anyone "not treating" bees could possibly get by without applying a medication preemptively. That presumption seems based on a belief that all hives are equally inoculated and equally susceptible to a pathogen, or that hives should at least be medicated for that belief. From a massive medication regimen, resistance management should always be a consideration.

    You're correct, it likely doesn't belong in a "treatment-free" thread, but the entire topic maybe doesn't belong in this section.

  15. #15
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Thank you for the clarification.

    I asked myself if it belonged, but if one doesn't ask, one will be less likely to find out. I'd rather the forum be open for the asking of any serious question.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,178

    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    So if the question (minus the presumptions) does not belong in this forum. Where does it belong?
    I read the OP as inquiring how to be able to stop treating. So far the answer seems to be to let the bees die. Sounds to me like the answer to never having any of the problems associated with beekeeping is to not keep bees. and this sort of problem solving is supposed to be admired, why?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Daniel, that last one is a good question, but it is too far off topic to be developed fully in this thread. Please start a new thread. Keep in mind that this forum is about discussing treatment free beekeeping, not for its adherents to be required to defend it.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  18. #18
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    Dec 2005
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    Volga, SD
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    I think the real point here, Daniel, is that simply applying a medication like this isn't really necessary. I've never used this particular product, and I haven't experienced any problems with Nosema. (I do not consider my beekeeping practices to be "treatment-free," and I would use various methods in beekeeping if conditions warranted.) Other beekeepers in this thread have already stated that they do not use this product and do not suffer losses from the target organism.

  19. #19
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    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    Wow, you guys read alot more into his question than I did. I believe he has a valid point. How do you control a know pathogen Nosema, without using any treatments (per the definitions here)? For you that have not experienced Nosema, it can have a 90 percent winter mortality rate in northern climates. That is unsustainable. With mites being a vector, I expect all of you to experience it soon.

    The answer may lie in irradiation, an expensive method. I do not believe it is considered a treatment on your list, because you are not treating the bees, but rather the hive that the bees have been in.

    SOl- IS my prediction starting to make more sense?

    Crazy ROland

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: How do you treatment free beekeepers make it without Fumidil-B?

    My problem with trying to answer it is, in 37 years I have never used it. Asking me how do you "make it without Fumidil-B" is like asking someone in a primitive village how can they possibly live without air conditioning...

    But I think the real answer is that a natural system with the proper microbes will displace pathogens, where a system that is driven by antibiotics will have all kinds of issues as those beneficial and benign microbes have been wiped out.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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