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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    White House, TN
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    61

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Quote Originally Posted by VolunteerK9 View Post
    Just out of curiosity DanielY - just how many queens have you attempted to raise using any method? Reading on a subject does not necessarily make one knowledgeable about it.

    Could the mods make this a sticky?. A lot of good info here. Thanks for sharing David. I'm planning on trying some of this as well next year.
    I think you have Knowledge and Experience confused! You do get knowledge from reading and experience from doing. You can also gain knowledge from experience.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    9,622

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Pops - please don't take offense from the above. Miscommunication is rampant here! Your comments are as valuable as anyone elses.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    845

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Miscommunication is exactly right!!! Daniel Y he wasn't even saying anything about anything about you. He didn't even quote you. He was making an observation about the difference between knowledge and experience. He wasn't saying anything about who has what experience, knowledge or what.

    This thread has been and is very helpful in many ways looking to rear queens!!! This is a busy time of year and no doubt some of us may not be in the best spirits as we ought to be.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,798

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    I removed this post myself. I think I am confused about what thread I am reading. So as a serious response to what I earlier took as an insulting comment by volunteerK9.

    I eventually made around 250 grafting attempts. This morning I was reading that post in response to one I had made about mating nucs. I am now thinking that is an entirely different thread. I am not entirely sure because posts seem to appear and disappear on this site.

    Anyway my apology K9 and even to Pops if you thought I was replying to you.
    Last edited by Daniel Y; 12-13-2013 at 07:37 PM.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    845

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Well there is a silver lining in everything. . . This caused me to go back and reread the first page of this thread which was where the quotes were from. This is a great thread.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    international falls, Mn
    Posts
    662

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Built my box for the starter/finisher today even though I wont populate it or try grafting for another 6 weeks. I'm thinking about building a lighted frame holder with LED light on it (battery powered). My 60 year old eyes need all the help they can get All my bees are in the wintering shed and there is still snow on the ground but spring will be here soon....Wintering ability will be my first character I graft for......

    ==McBee7==

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    St. Stephen, N.B. Canada
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    For you and I that's a given. Everything else is gravy.
    Zone 5B and waiting. 29m

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Clemson, South Carolina
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    I did my first attempt at grafting following this method on Friday with just 10. One of the cups fell off as I installed the frame, but of the remaining 9, 7 were accepted, so I call it a rousing success. Thanks for the guidance you've posted along the way.










  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    international falls, Mn
    Posts
    662

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    WWFoste---They look great , how about a pic of your cell starter/finisher
    And did you do the trick of putting in a frame of open brood a couple of days before you actually put in your grafts? Whatever you did, it looks like it worked.....Good Job..

    ==McBee7==

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Clemson, South Carolina
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Thanks. Here's the starter/finisher. This picture was from a week or two ago just after I set it up, so it's more populated now after some of the capped brood hatched. And yes, I added a frame of eggs and young brood on Monday and grafted on Friday. I used the frame I planned to graft from.






  11. #111
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, MO, USA
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    This thread is great. I plan on trying to raise some queens this summer using this method. My question is after the cells are capped can you add more grafts. Leave the original capped grafts in the hive to incubate. You would be using a frame with enough slots in the sides to add more bars with grafts on them. The capped cells would just stay in another 5 days to incubate. Theoretically you could pull ripe cells and add new grafts about every 5 days. I'm thinking there are a couple references to this but they don't just come out and say so. Is my reasoning sound or have I missed something?

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Clemson, South Carolina
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    63

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Quote Originally Posted by floydboy1 View Post
    This thread is great. I plan on trying to raise some queens this summer using this method. My question is after the cells are capped can you add more grafts. Leave the original capped grafts in the hive to incubate. You would be using a frame with enough slots in the sides to add more bars with grafts on them. The capped cells would just stay in another 5 days to incubate. Theoretically you could pull ripe cells and add new grafts about every 5 days. I'm thinking there are a couple references to this but they don't just come out and say so. Is my reasoning sound or have I missed something?
    I think the issue is that if they have the capped queen cells still in the hive, there is no drive or need for them to build more right next to them.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,365

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Jump back to post #40

  14. #114

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Quote Originally Posted by floydboy1 View Post
    Leave the original capped grafts in the hive to incubate. You would be using a frame with enough slots in the sides to add more bars with grafts on them. The capped cells would just stay in another 5 days to incubate. Theoretically you could pull ripe cells and add new grafts about every 5 days.
    I know one breeder who uses exactly what you are talking about on a large scale. Each cell builder has a frame in it with 30 to a bar. Every 3 days he puts another bar in frame with 30 cells. In the morning I was there he told his guys to pull row three of the cell builders middle graft. Two differences is size of finishers. Huge three 10 frame boxes over flowing. Queen excluder on the bottom box they pulled brood from all the time. The other difference is they were started in a queenless closed up nuc full of bees for 24 hours before they went into the finisher. He was running over 90% percent on takes doing 400 everyday and mating 75%. We do about 200 a week mostly for our own use. If we end up with 60% mated were happy. We leave thirty in a starter till they are capped then put them in a queenright finisher for incubation.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, MO, USA
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    My thoughts are the nuc would never have more than say 10 cells to start and build. Lets say my goal would be 5 cells at a time. I put in my first bar with cells and 5 days later they are capped. Just sitting there keeping warm. On day 5 I put in another bar of cells. For the next 5 days bees start and finish that bar. At the end of 10 days the first bar is ready to be removed and the queens put in mating nucs. The second bar I put in on day 5 is capped and just sitting there for another 5 days staying warm. After removing the first bar on day 10 I put another bar with new cells in it's place and just repeat the cycle every 5 days.

    The bees never have more than a very few cells to start and finish at one time but they will be doing that work almost continuously.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    2,278

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Glad this old thread got resurrected

    I made up a 12" (30.5 cm) tall, 6-frame, ventilated nucleus box to use for this Cell Builder method. This worked out well the 2 years I used it. The big benefit is that it is used often throughout the season, and you can learn a lot without committing a lot of resources, while building up your apiary from pretty stinkin' small to pretty booming big.

    I'm now in the middle of a major change-over to BIG BOX equipment - Modified Square Jumbo Dadant beehives, so will be making evthreeen bigger 6-frame nuc's, and a bundle of mating nuc's.

    David published elsewhere that his schedule is to start a batch of queen cells every 11 days, cutting and planting on the 10th day, and that the queen cells stay in the mating nuc's for 22 days. If one modifies this to starting a batch every 12th day, you can eventually run 3 such Cell Builders starting a batch every 4th day, running a total of 60 nuc's. After a season or 2 of this, you'll have the resources for running full-blown 3-box cell builder colonies using Michael Palmer / Brother Adam's method.

    Thank you, David, and Thank you, Joseph. This is the key to growing a bigger apiary - "Right-size" queen rearing for your own apiray's resources! I now do a photo inventory of every frame in the entire apiary before starting queen rearing and again before making nuc's. This way, I know when to quit before resources run out.

    An incubator and a queen bank give a lot of flexibility to the system, for when things don't go according to plan. This system gets both populated with queens in the first place.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Clemson, South Carolina
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    I checked my mating nucs from the grafts. 4 out of the 7 had laying queens. I grafted a new set today.

    The first picture is the "mother" queen, the next are the new ones.










  18. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,729

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Well done, wwfoste, this will be my second year using this technique. I love opening up mating nucs, it's like a little present every time.

    Sometime later this year I will use a queen right finisher, but haven't gotten to that point yet. Maybe after the next graft.

    Here's my first round this year, grafted 4/13.


  19. #119
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    Jul 2014
    Location
    Clemson, South Carolina
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    63

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher

    Thanks. Yours looks impressive too. I checked on my second set today, I was 7/7 on acceptance of the cells, but they had already built out a bunch of comb on two. I cut the big one off and put a frame of foundation next to it to try and discourage them.


  20. #120
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
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    5,729

    Default Re: Beginner Queen Rearing using the Joseph Clemens Starter/Finisher





    Hoping for good luck on this first round. Like last year, though, it looks like they might end up mating at the same time as the ones grafted a week later do. May 1st is the first date for possible mating for the first round. The take on the bottom bar is awful because it got dropped into the grass and dirt and a bunch fell off. So 29 of 38 took (not all pictured). I don't think there was a miss on the top bar though... dropping them didn't do them favors. I did a 24 hour pic and it looked like 100% acceptance, but I didn't look too closely.

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