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Thread: Fondant Fail

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Spokane, Washington, USA
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    Default Fondant Fail

    Decided to try this is a small batch before making huge amount for my Nucs.

    Mixed 2 quarts of water to 20 lb sugar. (should be 1 quart to 20lb?)
    put a little Pink Salt
    few drops of various Essential oils.
    Added 40 Grains(2.6g) of citric acid

    heated to 236 F.

    Thing turned to be gum..

    I think I added too much citric acid and too much water. Citric should be 15 grains(1.9g)

    Should I heat the gum back up and add another 10 lb sugar to make things a bit better?

    Or just give this gum to some nucs and make a new TEST batch?
    I dont kow if the bees will like the Over inverted gum.

    Let me know what you think...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    RAK,
    I tried this Fondant:
    4 cups boiling water.
    1/4 cup Karo syrup
    Juice of 1/2 lemon
    2 four pound bags of dry granulated sugar.

    Procedure,
    1. Boil the water
    2. Add the lemon juice.
    3. Add the first and second bags of sugar.
    4. Stir until the sugar dissolves.
    5. Boil the mixture until it reaches 238 degrees F.
    6. Quench the mixture until it cools down to 180 degrees F. (some references state 200 degrees F.) I used dough hooks to mix the syrup.
    7. Mixing with a wisk helps to cool down the mix and it incorporates air. I did not have time to waste wisking air into the mix.
    I made a nice clear supersaturated syrup.
    Later, when it cooled down to about 90 degrees F, I added more granulated sugar because I could see it was not going to set.
    I left a pan in a cake pan just to see if it would granulate with small crystals. If it remains as a very thick syrup I will warm it up and add more dry sugar.
    The syrup that cooled in the pot is similar to a soft ball stage of candy making.
    I might make some candy boards later this week.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  3. #3
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    May 2010
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Thanks for the reply... I ended up adding sugar also. So its a Gum with sugar and tastes great.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    I would skip the lemon juice. Commercially sold fondant is made with sugar, water, and corn syrup.

    I use one ounce of corn syrup per pound of sugar when making a "baker's fondant"

    I started with a 5:1 sugar/water mixture.

    Other photos:http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/j...06807/Fondant/


    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Once it goes gummy up, I think it's throw out time!

    Add all the sugar before it comes to a boil. Stir in about a cup at a time.

    Found you need to stir almost continuosly all the time you are boiling, as it will gum and burn/carmalize becasue mixture gets too hot next bottom steel.

    We have an old aluminum pressure cooking pot that works much better for all candies including Christmas candy that transfer heat slower. Steel pots transfer heat too well!

    Use a candy thermometer and STIR and go up to Firm Ball Stage which is 248F. Need to keep stirring for a while after coming off the element as there is lots of heat contained in the base of the pot.

    Need to experiment a bit as thermometers are not all precise and temp required varies a bit with altitude(different atmospheric pressure). If you get into Christmas candy making, you check the boiling temp of water and adjust temps by difference between 212F and boiling temp for your altitude you record.

    After it cools to 200F add lemon juice and beat with electric hand mixer, whisk, paint/ drywall mud mixture on an electric drill. Think if you add the lemon juice at the beginning, you boil off some of the flavor and
    ??perhaps juice.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    mgolden,

    Do you have a photo?

    Does your fondant resemble what is sold commercially in 50# blocks?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    I found it much easier to buy commercially produced Fondant from Hillcrest Foods. Comes in 50 lb blocks for something like $35. I cut it into slab with a square shovel, wrap in waxed paper and place directly on top of the cluster.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Will try a pic. I just put parchment paper in the bottom of square cake pan and when the fondant gets stiff, pour it in and flatten it out. Mine was 8 inch square pan and cut it into four pieces. Need to mark your cut lines before it fully sets if you want it to break into four perfect squares.

    Went out to my hive and removed a block that the bees have been working on.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Fondant doesn't "set".


    It doesn't break... and looks like the photo I posted.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Re: lemon juice.
    The lemon juice is added to invert the sucrose. It needs to be mixed into the boiling water so that it can work on the sucrose as you add it to the solution.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Great photos.
    How long does it take for the egg beater to change the consistency towards the white color of Fondant?
    Thanks,
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    You may be right, as I'm no chemist.

    The lemon juice is added as in canning just to make the goods acidic. Being acidic eliminates molding. Think of pickles, tomatoes and jams.

    Honey is acidic to a degree and hence one uses baking soda when baking. So adding an acid to the sugar makes sense as it mimics honey and hopefully reduces molding.

    But when it should be added to the mixture????????????

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Great photos.
    How long does it take for the egg beater to change the consistency towards the white color of Fondant?
    Thanks,
    Too long...
    It requires a powerful tool to whip or need the sugar mass as it cools.

    It takes a lot of time, electricity or gas, and a lot of cleaning up.

    I did a lot of batches last year to find the best technique for me... and after perfecting my procedure, I drove 15 miles and bought two 50# blocks of the stuff.

    I doubt if I'll ever make it again...

    Joe
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    PC050330.JPG

    Picture of Sugar Candy to go with previous posts

    Only took 5-10 minutes with mix master to beat.

    I had some left over 2:1 syrup and wanted to use it up so tried the candy/fondant. As it heated up and before it boiled I added some further sugar to thicken it to reduce the boil time.

    Can boil it on medium temps as long as you stir it almost continuously. Understand carmelizing or burning will give bees diarha so need to STIR. Add a Tbsp of lemon juice per liter/quart. As per the perforations, you can see that the bees quite like it. Didn't add clear corn syrup as its expensive and makes a smoother fondant but not necessary.
    Last edited by mgolden; 12-05-2011 at 02:53 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Jams,
    The acid in strawberries will invert sucrose and make a nice sweet jam
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Here's some data from the web,
    Inverting sugar
    Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 millilitres per kilogram) may also be used.
    The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.
    All inverted sugar syrups are created from hydrolysing sucrose to glucose (dextrose) and fructose by heating a sucrose solution, then relying on time alone, with the catalytic properties of an acid or enzymes used to speed the reaction. Commercially prepared acid catalysed solutions are neutralised when the desired level of inversion is reached.
    All constituent sugars (sucrose, glucose and fructose) support fermentation, so invert sugar solutions may be fermented as readily as sucrose solutions.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Assuming this is feasible to ship, any idea the ingredients in their Fondant? My mom uses fondants for baking and their ingredient list looked pretty bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I found it much easier to buy commercially produced Fondant from Hillcrest Foods. Comes in 50 lb blocks for something like $35. I cut it into slab with a square shovel, wrap in waxed paper and place directly on top of the cluster.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Corn syrup and sugar. I'm talking about raw fondant, not the pre-mixed stuff with flavors and colors and ??

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Fondant is just fudge without any flavorings or fats. You MUST boil it to the correct temperature, and if you use a thermometer and have a failure, you should check your thermometer -- most candy thermometers these days have a paper or cardboard scale and it can slip on the glass tube!

    Soft ball (fudge) is probably too soft for use in a beehive, it's better to get it to at least hard ball stage or soft crack. The bees aren't going to take it up unless it's syrup anyway, either by adding water themselves or syrup formed by condensation on the surface of the candy, so the harder the better.

    2 quarts of water and 20 lbs of sugar will take a while to boil down to a low enough water content. however, if you are adding protien, it will absorb some water and the lower temp can cause massive crystallization, making a mess.

    If your attempted fondant stays a gummy liquid, you probably added too much citric acid and now have invert syrup, which is less likely to "set" than pure sucrose. It will not stay put, so you can't use it in the hive, but you MAY be able to get it to set if you add some baker's sugar -- NOT confectioner's sugar, which contains cornstarch. You can grind or powder some pure sucrose and add that, too, but likely it will be a very coarse grained soggy mess rather than a nice hard fondant or candy.

    If it's thin enough to re-heat without scorching, get it nice and hot, add a cup or two of sugar, and boil until it gets to 250 F and see if some will set by dropping a bit into cold water. If it does, pour into a mold of some sort, or make a candy board.

    Peter

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fondant Fail

    Quote Originally Posted by psfred View Post
    Fondant is just fudge without any flavorings or fats




    Fondant is sugar and corn syrup.... without anything else (including lemon juice).
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

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