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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Warré Woodworking

    Here is my Warré Hive so far. Built as close to the plans as I can. The top box is made from cedar and the bottom box is made from pine. All boards are 1" thick nominal, All things being equal I like building with Cedar better. But alas they are not equal. I can build three pine boxes for the price of one cedar. The screws are plated roberts drive screws which I am fond of for boatbuilding. The glue I use is Titebond II. It is cheap and waterproof. Screw heads will be filled with a mixture of Titebond II and sawdust.
    Last edited by Beeophyte; 10-24-2011 at 07:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Looking great!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Thanks Cacklewack, from you that is high praise indeed. Any suggestions on making top bars? I want to avoid wax as I have read that most beeswax these days is loaded with treatments. Ideally I want to go treatment free.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    I suggest cutting kerfs into your bars and gluing in single popsicle sticks into each of them. No need for wax of any sort. Or we do have many folks building their own Warres buy bars from us, as they are the most tedious/difficult/dangerous part to make.

    Best,
    Matt

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    When making my Warre Hive and thinking about the top bars, I decided to use standard Lang frames, reduced in length of the top bar by cutting a section out of the middle and doweling the two pieces back together, leaving reduced side bars on to prevent comb attaching to the sides of the hive and no bottom bar. Put in a small popsicle started strip well waxed. Worked a treat.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Susquehanna county, PA
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    I didnt use any wax, just the bars and they worked fine. I would suggest that you use the 1/2 frame idea where you run a bar down the side of the top bar.
    http://warre.biobees.com/denis.htm
    shows what I am talking about. this way you could inspect your hive if required. I will be doing this to my boxes that I add to my hive for the spring.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Thanks for the top bar tips!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Sorry made the post twice.
    Last edited by Beeophyte; 10-25-2011 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Deleted Duplicate post

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    I emailed the local inspector asking him about Top Bar hives and Warré Hives and he never emailed me back. I think I will just invite the guy out and see what he says. Frames seems like a pretty big step back to Langstroth beekeeping to me.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    686

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Just run a kerf down the center of the topbar and glue in some kind of guide, i use 1/8" stock that i rip from the scrap lumber in my garage. I have also put wax or no wax on the guide and it honestly doesnt seem to make any difference.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,012

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Ah that cedar is sweet isn't it. Just the small alone can motivate me to stay out in the shop longer. Not to mention that it works so much easier and smoother.

    Not that it is a reliable source but ask around at lumber yards and home improvement centers about culled lumber. Ever wonder what happens to all those broads after people finish picking through the pile at home depot? it gets hauled out back and eventually sold as cull lumber for next to nothing. You can get a whole truck load of it for 15 to 20 dollars. most of it will work just fine for smaller items. Ask to be put on a call list if they have one for cedar culls. I got a huge pile of cedar a few years back for almost nothing. They just wanted it hauled away.

    Now do a box with cedar front and back pine sides and dovetails for the corners

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Cedar is my favorite wood for this sort of thing. Even though the initial cost is higher I suspect that it's greater longevity will mean that in the long run it is actually a more affordable wood than pine. I will keep records and in a few years we will see what the actual math is.

    Your tips about the cull pile are great! I agree it is more fun making stuff out of it (cedar) in the garage.

    Your idea about using cedar and pine in one box made me chuckle because I was thinking about that the other day. My thought was maybe I could put the cedar on the 'cold' sides of the boxes and pine on the 'warm' sides of the box. Not sure how that would be though because in the Warré you are supposed to rotate the boxes 90 degrees for winter (warm way). So that the combs run parallel with the entrance for greater draft protection.

    As for the dovetails...maybe for Christmas I can get a router and a table saw. Doing them with my circle saw seems dangerous .

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,001

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Is their an agreed upon set of demensions for a warre hive. I know TBH are all over on demensions.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Vance,

    The agreed upon dimensions are laid out in Warre's book. David Heaf has taken them time to create plans in both imperial and metric measurements here: http://warre.biobees.com/plans.htm

    The main variation seems to be wood thickness. Warre preferred wood that was about a full 1" thick. Internal dimensions usually match regardless of thickness.

    Best,
    Matt

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN, USA
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Since you're talking about modifying Lang frames for a Warre, Kelley sells a foundationless frame that comes with a triangular starter made on the top bar. We used some this year with no wax and the bees jumped right on them.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Susquehanna county, PA
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    I just made some from rough cut hemlock, it comes in a full 1'' thick. Just drill before you nail or screw the ends in.
    My top bars and 1/2 frame top bars are made from pine.
    The box is sealed in linseed oil and beeswax mix.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bon Aqua, Tn USA
    Posts
    330

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    People often say the top bars are fixed and are illegal, I just cut a small v in the ends and that lets you remove the frames easily. I too use cedar and if you look around, at least around here I can find cedar at or near a $1 or so a board foot. I have used a lot of cedar and even when fairly fresh cut it does not draw much like other woods. If I knew how to send a picture I would show mine.
    Last edited by Nantom670; 11-22-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    I have always been told that top bars are illegal because they can't be inspected, but when I checked the actual language of both the code and the regulations I discovered that it isn't true (at least not in Virginia). If the state Aparist has reason to suspect that my hives are sick I must let him inspect, but there is no language requiring that I use a specific hive design. As a matter of fact the code even mentions tree gums as a type of legal hive.

    I built my warre's with simple fixed bars.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    Hi Zonker, glad to see another virginian here. The head of the local beekeeping club told me he knew a Warré keeper in the area so I figure it must be okay here.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: Warré Woodworking

    I'm trying to create a compound that will feed me. I don't want to just be "off" the grid. I don't even want to be "of" the grid, so nothing on the property that I can't make by hand (no PV panels, power tools, etc.). I can make a standing tree into a warre hive with hand tools, but I can't make foundation, queen excluders, etc., so warre's are the right answer for me. Frames are a lot of extra work when you're using hand saws and hand planes, so I'm glad the state hasn't gotten around to telling what type hive I'm allowed to use.

    Also I'd like to meet that warre guy. I'm pretty new at it and would love to talk with someone with some experience.

    Also, also, I wish the was a warre area in the beesource for the same reason.

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