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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, OH
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    I don't mean to argue here... And I'm not sure of the ownership... An it may even be a technicality.. That being said.. This is actually NOT a public forum, it is in fact private, why? Because some owns the domain beesource.com, and someone owns the webforum for the posting here. That is why there is liability to what is posted here by the owner, the owner has the sole right and privilege to cancel, deny, make moderators, etc etc etc. Just because he let's everyone come to the party and doesn't deny them doesn't make it public... More than likely I'll say that the owner agreed to terms and conditions from the company he is using to host his forums... Of which I'm sure that is more in than you realize narrowing what is to be allowed... If he made the forums himself, he is once again the owner and fully responsible for everything that partakes on these forums.. But if he is the owner he can moderate the forum However he wishes whether it causes everyone to leave, some happy some mad or otherwise (you can never make everyone happy).... Sooo, disclaimer I'm not practiced in law or legal matters... But this is moreso the factual matter on why there us liability within the community.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Threads like this one, which besmerch someone's character should not stand, should not go unchallenged, unless the statement or critisism is wartranted. As one sometimes finds in the Consumer Reports Forum.
    It seems that many are quick to assume baldwinbees had an agenda. He was just trying to let others know what he found out.

    Again many are quick to assume that the bee inspector was dirty and wanted a bribe, even made it into a joke.

    All the time Robert gets a free pass.

    Baldwinbees posted the number so you can check it out for yourselves. How many of you have called? I have.

    Let the buyer beware.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lewistown,Pa,USA
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    I just wanted to add my 2 cents about this thread I agree with Cheezer, the moderators can moderat as they want. But I do think they edit and delete alot but they are the ones responsable for trying to keep the peace. Now for my 2 cents on the AFB thing, I got 50 queens from Russells this year and have been very happy to the piont that we have ordered theirr Sunkist Breeders. As Dr Russell said AFB is out there as long as taken care of proper it is not spread. We run more than 15000 hives and have not had any out breaks in about 10 years. And as for Inspectors keeping secrets I never heard that they arent to give info out. Heck I try to get as much info out of those guys and gals as I can but I also know what the info I get means in the big picture of all things bees. Well there is my 6 cents I think but we all know what it is really worth.( A small hill of beans )

  4. #144

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by Broke-T View Post
    All the time Robert gets a free pass.
    How many of you have called? I have.
    Let the buyer beware.
    Why so cryptic? Are you afraid to report what you were told?
    Do you think that if they get a hundred calls it’ll somehow make a difference?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    I was told his entire operation is under quarentine and he should not be shipping any bees from any of his operations.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    HATTIESBURG, MS
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    I am the Mississippi inspector that this discussion has centered on along with a beekeeper from Alabama. Anyone that knows me personally, and my character, would laugh at the accusations and innuendos concerning bribes and discussing the particulars of any case. However, I will remind each of you of something that is important to all of us that are strong proponents of “limited government”; it is call “freedom of information”.
    As far as defending myself – no need – just read scripture. It is only my responsibility to take every situation God allows in my life, to grow more like Jesus, and live my life in a way that points others to Christ. – SERMON OVER –

    I will however, address two portions of the Rules and Regulations governing the laws of Mississippi and direct those that are interested, to a link to read for yourselves the entire law and regs. Certain concerns several of you expressed should be answered, for the most part, in the two portions of the regs. In light of all said in this forum, please read 105.09 and understand the beekeepers responsibility in staying in compliance with state law.

    RULES OF THE MISSISSIPPI DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND COMMERCE
    SUBPART 3 – BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY
    CHAPTER 06 – Bee Disease Regulations

    Certification of Package Bees and Queen Bees.
    104 – All apiaries belonging to packaged bee and queen producers and nuc producers must be inspected annually for brood disease and parasitic mites. Certificates of inspection declaring apparent freedom from contagious bee diseases and parasites shall be attached securely to each lot of packages or queens being shipped. All lots of packaged bees, queens, or nucs being shipped into Mississippi must be accompanied by such a certificate from the state of origin.

    Quarantines:
    105.09 – It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly purchase, receive or transport bees from quarantined areas or quarantined beekeeping operations whether in-state or out-of-state.

    LINK TO RULES & REGS.
    http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/n_librar...egulations.pdf

    LINK TO BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY:
    http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/n_librar...index_bpi.html

    HONEY BEE PROGRAM:
    http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/n_librar...bpi_honey.html

    And to quote Forrest Gump “and that is all I have to say on the that”.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Broke-T,
    Since you are 100 miles from Bolton, I would like to know if you know Robert and/or any of his family? You seem to be promoting the bad info against him. So if you have an agenda it would be proper if you explained why. Maybe you have a point also. Even though I have had nothing but the best of all worlds in my dealings with Russell Apiaries, it would be good to know of others bad dealings with them and let us make up our own minds if they actually are not what they seem. I do not know any of them personally and have never even spoken with any of them on the phone, so no I don't know them.
    But I do know that Dr. Robert Russell has helped many on this forum and his own as well. I know that he is a very busy man and still takes time to help when he can. I also know that some on this forum are very aggitated and jealous of the adulation and thanks that he gets for his help. I think, that they think, he is doing it to further his business. I say if he is then more power to him as long as he is continuing to be a help. I also think that he has all the business he can handle as it is. He sells all he can produce now. The only times I get on Beesource anymore is to check and see what a select few has said.

    Good Luck! Brent Cook
    Last edited by Barry; 10-12-2011 at 11:21 AM. Reason: name calling
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  8. #148
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
    Posts
    1,585

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Charles, NO bees, queens, etc have been removed, sold or otherwise from the quarantined yard, so please explain what that yard has to do with any of this...

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,523

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by MSBEEINSPECTOR View Post
    Anyone that knows me personally, and my character, would laugh at the accusations and innuendos concerning bribes and discussing the particulars of any case.
    Thank you for weighing in on this. I laughed, as I think most did.

    I will however, address two portions of the Rules and Regulations governing the laws of Mississippi and direct those that are interested, to a link to read for yourselves the entire law and regs. Certain concerns several of you expressed should be answered, for the most part, in the two portions of the regs. In light of all said in this forum, please read 105.09 and understand the beekeepers responsibility in staying in compliance with state law.
    I'm certain there is more to this story than most of us know. It appears there is an issue with how one wants to read and apply the laws. I get the bigger picture now. Thanks.
    Regards, Barry

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,523

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    NO bees, queens, etc have been removed, sold or otherwise from the quarantined yard,
    How does this fit with 105.09; "or quarantined beekeeping operations"

    The wording is much broader than just a yard.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Ok, while I was posting my last post the Ms. inspector in question made his post. I went to the links provided by him and please point out to me where Russell Apiaries are under quarentine, or any part of it. It said that they couldn't ship any diseased bees from any location that had any disease or other problems. What do the rest of you make of Baldwin Bees unwarranted claims.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-12-2011 at 11:31 AM. Reason: language
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  12. #152
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
    Posts
    1,585

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by MSBEEINSPECTOR View Post
    I am the Mississippi inspector that this discussion has centered on along with a beekeeper from Alabama. Anyone that knows me personally, and my character, would laugh at the accusations and innuendos concerning bribes and discussing the particulars of any case. However, I will remind each of you of something that is important to all of us that are strong proponents of “limited government”; it is call “freedom of information”.
    As far as defending myself – no need – just read scripture. It is only my responsibility to take every situation God allows in my life, to grow more like Jesus, and live my life in a way that points others to Christ. – SERMON OVER –
    Never doubted that... this is why I believe that we could be friends...

    I think that we just have an issue of misunderstanding of how my operation works...

    Let me clarify it for you and everyone here so that maybe this type of issue does not arise in the future...

    My fathers operation has always been in MS and LA, with some interest (ownership and management) in hives in TX... Upon his failing health, his operations were limited to MS... I on the other hand have interest (ownership and management) in hives in over 11 states... upon the request of my father, I took over what was left of his operation after he removed my brother from it... there were very few hives left within that operation due to the poor management and abuse of the hives... the business name Russell Apiaries has long been connected to MS, so I can understand your assumptions... but I produce queens and bees from hives that are embedded in other operations for local handling... the reason that we asked for an inspection in MS was to comply with MS state code, not because we produce our products there.

    Does that clear things up a bit?

  13. #153
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,523

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Yes, keep it coming. So all the bees you sell come from locations outside of MS? That would be important to know.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #154
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
    Posts
    1,585

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    How does this fit with 105.09; "or quarantined beekeeping operations"

    The wording is much broader than just a yard.
    The code and the quarantine notice clearly state "apiary yard location", "in accordance of the Mississippi bee disease act, section 69-25-103 and the bee disease regulations, section 105.01; the removal of any and all colonies of bees, queens, hives, combs, and or equipment FROM THE ABOVE MENTIONED APIARY YARD is hereby prohibited until the quarantine is revoked by the Bureau of Plant Industry.

  15. #155
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,523

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    So after reading some of the codes, it appears to me that the issue creating the conflict is how one interprets the code. 105.01 mentions "quarantined apiary(s)", giving weight to the word apiary to mean a particular yard. You say that yard is quarantined which satisfies the law. The rest of your operation has no restrictions on it. Am I accurately speaking for you? Are other's then saying that the law is broader than that and if one has a quarantined yard, then the whole operation is in effect, quarantined? However, if you have operations spread across several states, that adds another twist.
    Regards, Barry

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,020

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Yes those are the two interpretations that are being made,by the two different "camps".

    But hey. If a guy has AFB in a bee yard, so quaranteens it, even to the extreme of burning clothing used when visiting that yard, are some saying bees cannot be sold from a different yard, 50 miles away, that has had zero contact with the other yard that used to have some AFB hive?

    C'mon, lets apply some common sense!

    And if anyone says no, common sense does not apply, it has to be the "letter of the law", to the most extreme interpretation, then to you I say, no bees can be sold, ever. Because all bees, even treated ones, will have a few varroa mites. A violation of the letter of the law. So nobody's allowed to buy any bees now. Commerce stops.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  17. #157
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,523

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    The code and the quarantine notice clearly state "apiary yard location", section 69-25-103 [snip] section 105.01;
    But it also clearly states in 105.09 "quarantined beekeeping operations" for those wanting to purchase. I think an attorney is needed to say for certain what "quarantined beekeeping operations" mean. An operation that has any quarantined yards, or an operation that has everything quarantined?
    Regards, Barry

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,523

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post

    C'mon, lets apply some common sense!
    There are many laws that lack common sense!
    Regards, Barry

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,020

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    You don't have to be an attorney to figure that one out. Wanna buy bees again, ever?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #160
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fallon NV USA
    Posts
    92

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Aparrently nobody is reading the definitions at the top of the rules and regs:

    2. “Apiary” – Any site or location whereby one or more colonies of bees are kept
    at anytime during the year.

    11. “Registered Location” – A site whereby bee colonies are placed once
    approved by the State Apiary Inspector constituting said placement of bees
    within a said forty acre plot.
    12. “Application for Registration” – A specific form furnished by the Bureau
    of Plant Industry for registering Apiaries in Mississippi.
    13. “Apiary Registration Number” – A number assigned by the Bureau of
    Plant Industry to a specific apiary once its registration is approved.
    14. “Quarantined” – Prohibition of removal of any bees, combs, hive parts,
    honey, wax, propalis, etc from an apiary without written permission of the
    State Apiary Inspector.

    105.09 It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly purchase, receive or transport
    bees from quarantined areas or quarantined beekeeping operations whether instate
    or out-of-state.

    155.09 does not refer only to beekeeping operations

    I am not surprised that wasn't noticed by the lead prosecutor......

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