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fall maintenance - when to begin in DC

5K views 24 replies 9 participants last post by  squarepeg 
#1 ·
Hello,

I am wondering when I should remove the honey super from my rooftop hive this year, and when I should start doing fall maintenance. As of last week, the bees in my most robust hive (the one with the supper) were highly active, bringing in lots of pollen. There were 6 uncapped, almost-full frames of honey in their super. Should I wait until the honey is capped before taking it out, despite the cold weather we are having?

In preparation for winter I plan to:

Inspect hives and remove bur comb;
close up vent holes I drilled in the brood boxes with wine bottle corks
Install entrance reducers;
treat for varroa mites;
put black "tar paper" around the hive to conserve heat;

When should I start doing all of these things? I was thinking to do this in the second week of october in the mid atlantic region (DC). Is this too late?>
 
#3 ·
When should I start doing all of these things? I was thinking to do this in the second week of october in the mid atlantic region (DC). Is this too late?>
You are about 600 miles South of me and I am starting my fall prep right now. So, if one considers every 200 miles south like a week in seasonal progression, roughly speaking, you should start no later than 3 weeks from now. The end of the first week in October. But, of course, pay attention to what the weather and plants tell you about where you live.

We had some frost here and there this morning. Supposed to be heavy frost possibilities tonight.
 
#6 ·
sqkcrk,
Thanks for the advice. I'll get all of the winterizing materials together so I'm ready to winterize in the first week of October. If there's a continued cold period before that, I may start early. Do the bees automatically cap the honey in the honey super when they are done collecting nectar for the season?
 
#7 ·
Shane,
Only reason I'm considering the tar paper is they are on the roof -- exposed to wind. I'm not sure exactly how to estimate the amount of honey in the boxes (I'm using 10-frame deep boxes), but the top box weighs about 45 lbs, and the bottom weighs about 20 lbs. Both hives grew from packages I installed in mid-April. If the boxes get really light in the spring, I may have to start feeding.
 
#9 ·
one deep box full of honey is all you need, its about 90 lbs. yes they will cap unless there using it lol. Sounds like you dont have enough stores, so feed now or just feed all wiinter. If you use screened bottoms, close that off. Tar paper can help but there pretty good at maintaining temp inside hive, main thing is food and disease before winter. Make sure food stays near cluster, move frames if you have to. dont be afraid of opening hive in winter. just dont break up cluster and make it quick
 
#11 ·
sqkcrk,

I read that it is highly advisable to remove the honey super before winter, because the honey may freeze, making the comb unusable later. Your post implies the bees may actually feed on the honey in the honey super if I leave it on. Would you advise leaving it on, or would this just make too large a space for the bees to keep warm?

I may not wrap only because it it would be a hassle to get all of that stuff on the roof.
 
#14 ·
sqkcrk,

I read that it is highly advisable to remove the honey super before winter, because the honey may freeze, making the comb unusable later. Your post implies the bees may actually feed on the honey in the honey super if I leave it on. Would you advise leaving it on, or would this just make too large a space for the bees to keep warm?
They don't keep their space warm, they keep themselves warm.

Think about what the bees would do were they in a hollow tree. Had they any open/not yet capped honey, what do you suppose they would do w/ it? That's how I see it.

But, if you take it off, there is mothing wrong w/ that either. That's one reason you keep bees, isn't it. To have honey to eat?

Leave it on or take it off, you can't go wrong. Unless removing the honey leaves them w/ too little to eat this winter. R U feeding?
 
#12 ·
Shane,
Yes, I agree its smartest to begin feeding 2:1 now as it is easier now than later. Only thing is, I want to pull the harvestable honey first (for my own greedy self) before I start feeding, as I don't want it adulterated with syrup water. Re: capping, I though that bees always capped the frames in the honey super when they were done, and if the frames were not capped it meant the honey is still ripening. Is this correct?
 
#15 ·
sqk,

Noted. I think I'm going to give them one more week to finish the honey in the super, remove it, then start feeding heavily. I am already feeding my less-robust hive, because it when it was doing poorly 1.5 months ago, I requeened it with an italian honey bee and added 5 nuc frames. The hive is still building itself up, and I didn't try to get any honey from it this year. Next year I'm adding two hives in my backyard, so hopefully out of four hives I'll get some honey for myself!
 
#16 ·
Getting lazy? :) Tired of climbing up on the roof?

I know a guy who planted a pine tree next to his Magnolia so he could climb the pine to reach the Magnolia blossoms, which he did into his 80s. He lived less than 20 miles from you.

Seems like you are enjoying having bees. Good. Nice to see.
 
#17 ·
DC,

Glad to hear your first season went well. All the advice here has been sound. I do have a different opinion on wrapping the hive (everybody in beekeeping has an opinion). I like to wrap the hive because the black wrap absorbs the suns heat and conducts it too the hive. It's been my experience this allows the bees to go outside for cleansing flights more often.

Also, I cut a slot in the inner cover for ventilation and I put newspaper on the top bars of the top box to absorb moisture.

I do all of the above as a final winterizing step in early Nov.
 
#19 · (Edited)
A lot of people do take and extract all there honey and feed instead. If you sell your honey, lets say 5 bucks for a lb, minus packing cost, I sell 50lb bags of sugar for 27.95. Thats about 5.5 bottles of honey to pay for sugar. Which 50lbs of sugar will make around 10 gallons of syrup. I think thats around 75 to 100lbs of syrup depending on ratio, to 5.5 lbs of honey taken to sell to pay for sugar. Go figure. I think you would be ahead to sell honey and buy sugar and feed. Unless you eat all your honey lol. Lets not figure in labor for feeding!!!
 
#20 ·
HBD,
That's good advice re: putting newspaper on the top bars to control moisture. I see those types of covers a lot in You Tube videos, and I have been wondering what they are for. The inner covers I purchased from brushy mountain all have pre-cut slots, so that will save me the trouble of cutting it myself.

I harvested honey from the more robust hive, and used the crush and strain method to extract it. (next year I'll be able to justify purchasing an extractor, hopefully.) I got about 5 pounds worth. It's very good, off course, clear and dark amber in color.

I think next year I will try using a "bee escape", because I created a big disturbance in the hive when I removed the bees from the honey super. I basically set up a cloth ramp to the entrance and shook each frame of bees onto it. When I was done, there were thousands of confused bees on the ramp, but after about 3 hours they all went back to the hive. By the way, will be bees all fit into only 2 deep supers? It seems like it is really crowded now.
 
#21 ·
DC,

First, congratulations on getting honey your first season. That's quite an accomplishment and makes the "view worth the climb" doesn't it.

The cloth ramp is a novel idea. It makes sense as it would orient them into going into the correct hive. I usually brush them into the top of the hive I'm working on and they don't care for that either. I've never removed a super and not had a big disturbance. If you use a bee escape remember to pull the honey the next day because hive beetles can still get up there and without the bees to protect the comb, they can make a mess.

This time of year, I don't worry about crowding too much as they will be clustering for winter soon. As long as they can all get in the hive at night they will be fine. I read on another thread the idea of putting an empty super on the bottom to give them more room if its needed and in that position foundation is okay. It sounds like a good temporary fix. As the population declines in a couple of months you can pull that super.

BTW - One other benefit to the newspaper. When you do your winter checks you can see if the newspaper is dry. If it is you know that you are getting the right amount of ventilation. If it is wet then you know that you need more ventilation. One other thing I've learned in my set-up is to place only only about 6-8 sheets of newspaper folded over on the top bars. Too much newspaper fits too tightly around the hole in the inner cover and can also interfere with ventilation. This was a trick I learned at a beekeepers meeting from a Va Tech professor who made his career studying bees.

Again, congratulations on your successful first season.
 
#23 ·
>Inspect hives and remove bur comb;

As many already said, I wouldn't.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#leaveburr

>close up vent holes I drilled in the brood boxes with wine bottle corks

I wouldn't have drilled the holes, but yes I would stop them up. If you don't have another top entrance of some kind (notch in the inner cover etc.) then I'd leave the top one open.

>Install entrance reducers;

Yes, and mouse guards.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeswinter.htm

>treat for varroa mites;

I wouldn't but I have natural comb and small cell...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

>put black "tar paper" around the hive to conserve heat;

I wouldn't, but if I were going to, I'd put some wood on the corners to hold it out from the wood. My experience was the boxes were soaking wet all winter when I did...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stopwrapping

>I read that it is highly advisable to remove the honey super before winter, because the honey may freeze, making the comb unusable later.

Not true. You may end up with crystallized honey but it will not ruin the comb and the bees will consume it fine.

> Your post implies the bees may actually feed on the honey in the honey super if I leave it on.

Yes.

>Would you advise leaving it on, or would this just make too large a space for the bees to keep warm?

Space on the sides and overhead have some effect on how warm the bees are, but they are not heating the space per se. They will move up if there is too much space overhead and then the space will be below them.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesscientificstudies.htm#overwintering

>I may not wrap only because it it would be a hassle to get all of that stuff on the roof.

I don't mind the hassle of wrapping, although I'm certainly in favor or saving work and cost if it makes no difference, but my main reason for not doing it is that it seems to seal in the moisture.

>Yes, I agree its smartest to begin feeding 2:1 now as it is easier now than later.

If you're going to feed, now is better than later.

>Only thing is, I want to pull the harvestable honey first (for my own greedy self) before I start feeding, as I don't want it adulterated with syrup water.

Personally I would not pull honey to feed syrup. They have to get it dried and capped and it will disrupt the microbes in the hive to feed syrup. Why go to all that trouble if it's not going to help them and may cause them problems.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmorethan.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm#naturalfood

>Re: capping, I though that bees always capped the frames in the honey super when they were done, and if the frames were not capped it meant the honey is still ripening. Is this correct?

Mostly, yes. But they sometimes don't cap it because they are in the process of using it. However I think your situation is that it's not dry enough, which leads to the next question, if its taking that long, under current conditions, which will only get colder and worse, for that to dry enough to cap, how long will it take to get the 2:1 syrup down to the required 5:1 to cap it?

>I'm going to begin closing up the hive for the winter now. Can someone suggest a good way to close up the screened bottom board for the winter?

In a few weeks you can get all the political signs you want. Cut them to fit.

> Would it be sufficient for me to simply install the corrugated plastic mite count boards?

Yes. If you have those you won't need to make anything.
 
#24 ·
MB, thanks for the advice.

I'm going to take the hivetop feeders off this weekend, and will be re-installing the notched inner covers. And I will also prop up the top outer cover with popsicle sticks or some other shim for ventilation.

Regarding entrance reducers, the metal L-shaped ones with holes arrived from Brushy Mountain. I'm going to try those.

I've put the plans to wrap on hold until I figure out an easy way to do it w/out trapping moisture in the hive. One way would be to staple thin rails around the boxes so that the roofing felt would hang in a curtain-like fashion, creating an air space b/t the hive and the felt. The disadvantage to this is its labor intensive and will make it harder to open the hive for inspection. If I don't think of an easier way to do this, I might just not wrap them this year and see what happens.

Has anyone else had moisture problem with wrapping?

DCB
 
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