National Honey Board

[Michael Palmer]

Is there one? Do they have the right to audit my books?

I thought the NHB was all done and what remains is a "Packer Board", and there are no longer assessments or compliance laws. I have a notice that the NHB is coming to my house and demanding I present my books from 2008 to 2011.

[njhkt6]

I don't really know anything about them, but from their website (http://www.honey.com/nhb/about/) it does not look like they have any power to do anything. "The National Honey Board is not a regulatory agency nor does it have powers of enforcement."

[kchendershott]

I would inquire further. I did a search and found the National Honey Board is more of a publicity and public awareness organization promoting honey products. Something smells "not quite right." As far as I know, only the IRS can audit your books, unless you're applying for government assistance. If they are legitimate, insist they meet with you at your lawyer's office - I'll bet they'll not show up.

[brac]

Their Strategic Plan, says nothing about "investigating" bee keepers. http://www.honey.com/nhb/about/strategic-plan/

[jim lyon]

Good question MP, I thought so too. They did that to me a number of years ago and it wasnt a lot of fun. It took a lot of preparation to document everything. I was a few percent off and they kept pestering me for more stuff for several months afterwards, and I told them that was all I could find and they finally let it drop. Chances are they are operating under some murky old by-law but where they are getting any money to operate is a mystery to me. Perhaps some pointed questions to them are in order.

[brac]

I'm thinking I would tell them they need a court order to see my books. I have nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean they have a right to get in my business.

Please keep us updated.

[deknow]

...get thee a lawyer, and refer the nub to the lawyer.

I'd.like.to.see.the NHBs.books!

[brac]

I thought about a lawyer, before I suggested he make them get a court order, but the NHB is not a court or law enforcement entity. That and lawyers aren't cheap.

Jim, did they explain exactly what they were looking for, and under whose authority?

[sqkcrk]

Perhaps this has something to do w/ being or appearing to be a Packer? I too would demand proof that they have legitimate rights to see my business records. A Court Order or Warrant, but certainly a good reason.

Let us know how it goes.

[jim lyon]

In a nutshell they wanted sales receipts (in pounds) to match up with assessments paid. At the time I was operating my packing business as a separate entity from our beekeeping business.
My experience was pre "packer board" by quite a few years. I'm betting that Mark has nailed it and they are just trying to figure out if you are primarily a packer or a producer or what combination of each you are to determine if you should be paying assessment to them. Perhaps a reading of their by-laws would be in order to determine where you stand, chances are you are exempt.

[whiskers]

Went to NHB site (link in brac's post)- read "The HPIB order" (click the thingie in the menu on the top right). It has a link to the full text. This is the link.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...TELPRDC5070328
Read 1212.51 and 1212.52 which describe who gets to pay an assessment.
Bill

[Intheswamp]

Is this what gives the NHB teeth (if it truly has teeth)?...
The Honey Packers and Importers Research, Promotion, Consumer Education and Industry Information Order (PART 1212)

250,000 pounds of honey is a lot of honey (to me). This is the production apparently required in the HPIB to be eligible to vote on referendums governed by it. Seems this would keep the little guys/gals (you know, the folks producing a measley 100,000 pounds) out of having a say/vote within the National Honey Board on things that could ultimately affect them. Kinda like "No taxation without representation",....nah.

Regardless of who produces how much honey... The economy, price increases of many staple items, tax revenue down in many areas....the NHB is probably looking for money anywhere that they can find it, much like we are seeing many departments, agencies, municipalities, states, etc., doing. I've said it before and I'll say it again...the government will be the last breathing entity, it will tax and penalize the public until there's nothing left to get and then it too will perish.

It seriously makes me wonder whether the NHB is for the AMERICAN producers or for...the NHB. Shouldn't they be out tracking those drums of wonderful "honey" from our friends at the PRC?

Rattling on, pardon the babbling about something I know nothing about...
Ed

[Roland]

Before the lawyers(which is a good suggestion), I would kindly ask for written proof of their jurisdiction. Every law enforcement official can prove from whence they draw their jurisdiction, such as the village or county in which they operate(have jurisdiction). The Ag department,etc, is from the commerce clause of the Constitution. Your weakness is that you have engaged in commerce.

Crazy Roland

[wildbranch2007]

§ 1212.53 Exemption from assessment.
(a) A first handler who handles less than 250,000 pounds of honey or honey products per calendar year or
an importer who imports less than 250,000 pounds of honey or honey products per calendar year is exempt

the key word here is handles, leaves much to the imagination, using acebirds thread about handling honey, the average beek handles each pound of honey at least 8 times, so dividing the 250,000 lbs by 8 mike only has to produce a little over 30,000 lbs of honey to qualify i was taught that new math stuff in school

[Intheswamp]

From the HPIB Order:

§ 1212.8 Handle.
"“Handle” means to process, package, sell, transport, purchase or in any other way place honey or honey products, or causes them to be placed, in commerce. This term includes selling unprocessed honey that will be consumed without further processing or packaging. This term does not include the transportation of unprocessed honey by the producer to a handler or transportation by a commercial carrier of honey, whether processed or unprocessed for the account of the first handler or producer."

Ed

[Ted Kretschmann]

I dont know, but I still have assessment taken out as a member of a Coop. I thought we had finally exposed the NHB for what it was---a promotional tool for every other beekeeper in the world and we killed the NHB by giving the packers there own board. I am a former nominations committee member of the old NHB and never agreed with the shanigans that were going on. Such as meetings in Reno at the uncle's Casino of the girl that managed the board. While this was fun-it made me wonder what sort of honeybee mafia BS was going on the entire time I served-catch my drift.....That board cost American Beekeepers their fair market share of the domestic increased use of honey created by the board. Foriegn beeks benefited and we paid the bills. God how we paid the bills-by the hundreds of millions of dollars. And American Beekeeping that did not benefit from the board efforts lost beekeepers and bees. The industry did not expand but shrank!!!! I cringe when I hear the name of the NHB and hate its name to this day and what it did not stand for--the promotion of American honey produced by American Beekeepers. TED KRETSCHMANN

[Michael Palmer]

Isn't that the truth, Ted. They cost us millions and basically promoted Chinese honey. Last time they they auduted me...10 years ago I would guess, the NHB shows up at my front door with copy machine in hand. Demanded to see my books. I said no...they threatened to bring in the State Police. I allowed her access, they made copies of everything, and sent me a bill...$1500.

I complained to my Senator...he informed me that the beekeeping industry had voted on and approved the NHB. As no one I know of in Vermont voted or even got a ballot, I questioned that response. He said that 75% of those voting voted in favor. Who voted?? No one I know...even though we were on the old list from when we received a subsidy for our honey. In later votes, they rigged the vote...not one beekeeper one vote as would be democratic. It was one beekeeper one vote but weight of vote was determined by how much honey the beekeeper sold during the year. So we lost every vote by a few % because it was a loaded vote.