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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Today I got the Lab Report from USDA-ARS Beltsville. Two composite samples were taken from each of three yards. The results are as follows.

    O'Niel Yd Sample #1-- Had an average of 6,650,000 Nosema Spores per Bee.
    Sample #2--Had an average of 900,000 Nosema Spores Per Bee

    Steinberg Yd Sample #1--Had an average of 2,150,000 Nosema Spores per Bee.
    Sample #2--Had an average of 2,300,000 Nosema Spores per Bee.

    Kingston Yd Sample #1--Had an average of 4,500,000 Nosema Spores per Bee.
    Sample #2--Had an average of 1,800,000 Nosema Spores per Bee.

    So, what's the recommended next step? Feeding Fumidil B in syrup?

    On the report it says Diagnosis- Both Samples- Nosema Disease(Nosema sp.). What does the "sp." mean? Specific? Or what?

    My honey crop has been really poor this year. Along w/ the high Mite Count, I imagine the high Nosema count would attribute to the cause of low honey production?

    Any advice from those who have had good results addressing High Nosema Counts?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,316

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    >Nosema sp

    It stands for "Species" and means they did not specify what the Species is so it could be apis, or cerana (or from a taxonomy point of view rather than a beekeeping point of view any other Nosema species).
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    There are more than two? Are others specific to different types of insects? Like Cricket Specific Nosema? I guess I'd better look that up. Thanks.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    oneida ny usa
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    128

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Mark, you didnt mention feeding. Do/did you? Would you not benefit from feeding patties? More protein cant hurt, right?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pigeon Falls, WI
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    2,528

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Were the samples taken from the entrance? Off of brood comb? Off of Honey frames? That will change on how to guage the actual spore count. Your in luck.....maybe. Your samples show low spore count IMHO. I personally would drench with fumagillin. It helped my bees tremendously.
    Leer Family Honey Farm-Shannon Leer

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Michael,
    no, no feeding yet. I guess if the patties had fumagillin in them that might be a good idea.

    Beeslave, do you mean spraying it on the bees?

    Samples were taken at the entrance by gathering bees getting set to depart for foraging.

    Low spore counts when 1,000,000 spores per bee is the recommended treatment threshold?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
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    3,191

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    feed a quality sub, and through the fumagillin in the trash can.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,976

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    here is a site with the most information available that I have found Rany Olivers site.

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/

    I don't agree with all he says, but much of it is very helpfull. What I have learned/think from his posts on bee-l and from post from Bob Harrison <busybeeacres@HUGHES.NET>
    is that there appears to be multiple varieties of nosema c. as the symptoms appear to differ from the west coast(or warmer climates) verses norther climates. randy says in my opinion its a summer disease and you can ignore it. bob harrison says treat with fumidil in the fall for two years and then your bees will get more productive. I don't care what anyone says up here I have found the hives that I'm able to treat, after a year or two get more productive. best example I can give Is my best yard(never treated) just fell apart this spring, no obvious reason, I moved in three hives from a yard that had been treated the previous 3 years. The yard didn't go bad the bees did, the moved hives went crazy making honey, the hives that hadn't been treated made an ok crop by the end of the year, but no comparison, same queens same age, from same batch of queens from same nuc yard.
    If I remember your count was lower last year, so you are going into the second year. I would give them fumidil when you feed them in S.C, and again in the spring. and let us know.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  9. #9
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    feed a quality sub, and through the fumagillin in the trash can.
    Is that what I should have done earlier in the season? Say, before or after pollination? Back when the hives were really strong and fat?

    Is my theory on lack of honey a sound idea? That the heavy mite counts and Nosema levels has contributed to the low production in the colonies that are alive and producing and nothing from the ones that aren't, because of the Varroa and Nosema?

    I didn't do a mite treatment in the Spring. I did feed a pollen sub in Feb, a month before splitting. But not since. SC usually has excellent pollen for growing nucs and queens.

    I did have some trouble w/ what was thought to be a problem from Yellow Jasmine. But, maybe it was something else.

    So Keith, feed a quality pollen sub and forget fumagillin to treat against the Nosema? Any suggestions where I can get such a product? I am more into purchasing things I don't have equipment to produce or know how to produce well.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Mike, relativily high one year. Over 2.5million spores per bee ave. Then last year alot lower. Now greatly higher.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Amador County, Calif
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Mark, you can usally back step your tracks and find where the bees started to stumble, stress is a quite killer. Just like in the Dakotas right now alot of nosema showing up, a cool wet summer for them.

    As far as a good sub.... well... something with 17% pluse on the protein & 5-8% on fats, good luck Mark, feed'em well and they will take care of themself's.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    I tend to leave more honey on my hives than others I know well do. W/ the poor crop, I am tempted to rob even more and feed more. My gut tells me NO. My pocketbook says Yeah. But, even if I robbed all the honey my bees have, I don't know that I would have the honey I sold last year. And the bees would be stressed, wouldn't they?

    So, Keith. How often and when do you recommend feeding "a good sub"? I fed a patty last Dec. and then another in Feb.. I imagine the real benefit comes from always having it present and not spaced out by months, right?

    What about the good goldenrod pollen they are bringing in now? Shouldn't that carry them a long way? Since, were I to leave them here for the winter, and to their own devices, that stored pollen should last them the winter.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Mark, just remember, most pollen coming in this time of year is "stored pollen" what you need is consumed pollen(sub), ie, moving thru the mid gut.

    There is a HUGE difference between stored & consumed (sp).

    MOST beekeepers think aw theres pollen coming in no need to feed this fall....... then..... April comes around & darn lost those bees again,I guess I need to get a different queen supplier, Mark, ever hear that before?
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Yes, I have.

    When and how often?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Mark, I would give two five pound rounds, one now and one in two weeks. Hey Mark, Mike there in NY has made some nice sounding sub it's in your neck of the woods too.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    What about the Pattys from Mann Lake? Would they ber good to use?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  17. #17

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    I would give two five pound rounds, one now and one in two weeks.
    In this part of the country, if we gave ours a 5lb pollen sub patty, in two weeks we wouldn't need a second one. We'd be so overrun with small hive beetle larvae.....
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  18. #18
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    Embarrassed Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Are you in NY with Mark?
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  19. #19

    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Are you in NY with Mark?
    Just commenting.....excuse me.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Addressing High Nosema Counts

    >There are more than two? Are others specific to different types of insects? Like Cricket Specific Nosema?

    Those are the only two that affect honey bees. But yes, there are many species of Nosema.

    Nosema algerae in mosquitoes
    Nosema antheraeae and Nosema bombycis in silkworms
    Nosema birgii and Nosema chaetocnemae and osema couilloudi and Nosema equestris in beetles
    Nosema bombi in bumble bees
    Nosema carpocapsae and Nosema chrysorrhoeae in moths
    ... and several hundred more...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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