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  1. #21
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    Jul 2011
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    Crenshaw County, Alabama
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    1,988

    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Clemens View Post
    I did not say that "nematodes" are useless against SHB, just that Bt (Bacillus thuringiensis) would not be useful against them - it only affects lepidopteran species. I have used parasitic nematodes in my own bamboo groves to help fight several species of beetle grubs. They aren't able to completely eradicate all the beetle grubs, but I believe they are a great help. They may be effective (probably are) at preventing or reducing the number of SHB that successfully transition from larva to adult when in the soil.
    Joseph, please accept my sincere apology for another error on my part...you were referring to Bt in your reply and I replied back with nematodes on my mind. (Maybe that's my problem...I have nematodes on my mind! ) I had no intention whatsoever of changing what you were speaking of. One thing is for sure, I won't be mixing up Bt and nematodes when I'm talking anymore....hopefully...if I get this mixed up at 53 I hate to see what I'll be like at 63!

    We're moving into what I've read is SHB season down here. From the papers and articles that I've read September through November are the peak population period here in the southeast.

    My mentor came by Friday and said he'd lost one of his outlaying hives to SHB. He's an older gentleman who uses his computer some on the internet but doesn't surf and study as much as a rabid newbee does (like me). I'm going to try and see if I can start helping him do some major hive inspections and maybe kick up his IPM a notch or two. He stated that he doesn't like oil trays, apparently he had problems with them early on...one aspect he stated was that they were "messy". But of the traps, the trays seem to get the best reports, not 100%, but definitely helps to knock SHB down to bee manageable numbers. I'm going to start spending a bit more time with him (if everything works out with my schedule). I told him the other day that I needed to come up there and get my hands more in the bees...he lit up with a smile and quickly agreed. Maybe with his years of experience and my newbeeness along with new (good) ideas I gather here on beesource and elsewhere we can improve his colonies while I get some really valuable hands-on time with the bees. A win-win situation.

    Maybe the areas around the hive my mentor lost would be a good area for some nematodes, eh?

  2. #22
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    Jul 2011
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    Crenshaw County, Alabama
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Quote Originally Posted by KQ6AR View Post
    You're nasty ants might be enough to take care of the beetle larva.
    I wouldn't be surprised if one of the many strains of BT are effective on the SHB Larva. Don't know enough about it.
    Yes, the Argentine fire ants might take care of the larvae but I really don't want them too close to the beehives. Those suckers are BAD. I walked by a short stack of split firewood the other day and noticed dirt on TOP of then wood....yelp, fire ants. I stack my wood on 2x4's lain across 8" tall cement blocks. Fire ants are a critter to contend with...and they love to build nests up against things resting on the ground...hive stand supports would be ideal for them. If I kept a perimeter around the hive stands clear of fire ants then the larvae would have a "safe zone" to enter the ground. Unless, of course, I used a treatment that would kill both the ants *and* the larvae............. I paused while writing and did a short google search and found that Heterorhabditis indica is listed as working against fire ants!!! Hmmm, maybe I can get more mileage out of nematodes than I first figured on...two bugs with one stone! Interesting....

    FYI, here's a pretty good map that's located HERE. There are links to several more maps on that page showing some of the states in closer detail that appear marginally threatened by fire ants...these are states on the interior edges of the fire ants range as depicted on the USA map. If they had a map of Alabama in detail it would simply be red.


  3. #23
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    Aug 2011
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    HATTIESBURG, MS
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    15

    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Bt is specfic for only lepidoptera, forget SHB. As for drenching with Gardstar (permethrin) some rain (not a gully washer with runoff) will not affect it as it will only aid in moving it into the soil where the larvae will be and give better protection from sunlight (not break the a.i. down). Some rain will not destroy the Gardstar, as permethrin is also used for termite treatment and will last in the soil. The problem is that at the low rate for SHB it will not be much left there by the first of the year. Best to wait until a few days before movement of the bees.

  4. #24
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    Aug 2011
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    HATTIESBURG, MS
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Quote Originally Posted by KQ6AR View Post
    You're nasty ants might be enough to take care of the beetle larva.
    I wouldn't be surprised if one of the many strains of BT are effective on the SHB Larva. Don't know enough about it.
    KQ6AR Trust me Bt will not kill SHB period, as odfrank so stated BT, bacillus thuringiensis, is the spore of a stomach illness that only kills moth larvae It will not kill a beetle." -- (more specifically Lepidoptera) --. I worked with the company for approx. 10 years that produced Certan and that Swiss company was a major player in the world market of Bts.

  5. #25
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    Jul 2011
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    Crenshaw County, Alabama
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Inspector, it has already been agreed upon that I made a big mistake in using the term "Bt" when I really meant to say "nematodes". If the thread is read closely I believe it can be seen that I was inquiring about nematodes and that I made an obvious BIG ERROR.

    But, while you're here...do you know anything about nematodes?

    Thanks for the feedback,
    Ed

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    HATTIESBURG, MS
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    15

    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    SORRY, I GUESS I JUST DID NOT READ IT CLOSE ENOUGH TO GET THAT PART. PLUS WHEN I READ THE FIRST FEW I RESPONDED BEFORE READING FURTHER TO CATCH THAT PART. I'LL TRY HARDER NEXT TIME, I GUESS I MADE A "BIG ERROR" ALSO. AS FOR NEMATODES, NOT SURE ON BEETLES. WHERE THE BIOLOGICALS ARE USED THERE ARE VARYING RESPONSES IN DIFFERENT AREAS. WE FIND THAT THEY WORK WELL IN SOME AREAS BUT NOT IN OTHERS ONLY TIME WILL TELL. AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE GAINT SALVINIA, AN AQUATIC INVASIVE WEED. THE WEEVIL KEEPS IT IN CHECK BUT WE HAVE TO TOLERATE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SALVINIA, SO THAT THE WEEVIL CAN SURVIVE. BUT, ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT IF THE WEEVIL OR IN THE CASE WITH THE NEMATODE, IS HOST SPECIFIC THAT MEANS THAT IF THE HOST IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED THEN THE NEMATODE WILL DIE OUT. IN OTHER WORDS THERE MUST ALWAYS BE SOME OF THE HOST THERE FOR THE NEMATODE TO SURVIVE. SO, IF THE NEMATODE IS HOST SPECIFIC AND THE SHB IS DESTROYED IN YOUR APIARY TO THE POINT THAT THE NEMATODE DOES NOT SURVIVE, THEN THEY ARE GONE AND THE BEETLE WILL RE-INFEST AS WE KNOW THEY CAN FLY FOR SOME DISTANCE. SO, IN ORDER FOR THEM TO SURVIVE (IF THEY ARE HOST SPECIFIC) THEY NEED BEETLES AND THAT STAGE THEY FEED ON TO BE THERE FOR SURVIVAL. TO SHORTEN THIS DOWN, (KIND-OF-LATE NOW) IT MAY WELL DEPEND ON JUST HOW MANY SHB's YOU ARE WILLING TO PUT UP WITH IN THE APIARY. AS FOR ME, I PREFER TO USE THE AVAILABLE TREATMENTS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP THEM UNDER CONTROL.

  7. #27
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    Crenshaw County, Alabama
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    I've found that the nematodes that I would be using also target fire ants which would be an additional food source for them. I was hoping to seed a population that might stay there, but I understand they need something to feed on they'll die out, it seems as we have an endless supply of fire ants. Maybe the nematodes can do double duty, eh? It may or may not be a worthwhile venture. I emailed Dr. Keith Delaplane and he is behind the use of nematodes as a weapon against shb. Who knows what I may do....shotgun?

    Speaking of management methods, what are you using against shb?

    Ed

    PS...tap your "caps lock" key...your typing in all caps which is commonly considered yelling.

  8. #28
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    Feb 2011
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    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Pre-emptive strike? Swamp, do you plan on nucking them using sea launch cruise missles? Maybe that will finally irradiate the hive beetle and then maybe it will go the way of the screwworm. TED

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    When it comes to hive beetles and wax moth, Fire ants are your FRIEND!! A hive that has succumbed to these invaders if placed near a mound of fireants will be clean out of the problem. TED

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    Default Re: Pre-emptive strike against SHB using Bt?

    Years ago there was a nice corralation done on the advance and potential range of the fire ant and the potential range of AHB in the USA. Both maps are similar. TED

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