Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

[BeeGhost]

I checked my trap out today as well. Not many bees were exiting the trap, maybe one or two in like 10 minutes. So, I took the trap down and checked inside and found some bee parts and mouse turds.........not good. So upon removing the swarm trap I seen more bees coming out of the entrance I made in a minute then I did in the whole time I was sitting there!! I think the mistake I made was putting the trap on to early without letting the bees get used to the new entrance/exit for a few days or a week before joining the trap. So, I am going to leave the trap off and just let the bees do as they will for about a week. Its suppose to be around 70 here the next few days, so I will probably set the trap again on Monday. I should be able to scrounge up a frame or two of fully drawn comb, but being a new beekeeper I am short on that end!!

[Gypsi]

I am anticipating similar problems. I would have preferred to just attach the mount to start, to let them get used to the new opening I drilled (no way to mount anything over a 6 inch seam where brick and siding meet so I caulked that closed.)

But if I did a good job sealing all openings, maybe they will check things out. Time will tell.

If I have to take the trap down it will be easy, as what is screwed on with brackets is the mount, and my shelving unit, not the hive. By the same token, if I get one queen, brood, bees, and I suspect there is another queen being made, I can swap traps at that time, without changing the mount. (still have to build trap 2, but I have another useless deep, so it will take all of 15 minutes. And in a week or 2, free 2nd hive? hmmm....

[CaBees]

I hope you don't mind me jumping into this thread too. Thank you to Cleo for sending me pictures and suggestions; I too am convinced this is the way to go to start extracting an old feral hive from my neighbor's fence. It will be wonderful to see how all of these turn out!

My immediate question is how warm should it be before I 'should' open my one and only hive (which appears to be doing great...lots of activity) in order to steal a frame of brood for this trap? I have much work to do setting up the transition first, then setting a trap close to the entrance (on a slope), so anticipate at least 2 more weeks to go by before I join up the trap and transition. I'd like to just draw the queen out immediately if I can once they are joined and take them away..... this is a case where the homeowners do not want bee and want them out as soon as able.

I have either a 5 frame nuc or maybe will modify and use one of my 8 frame deeps for this.

Once I get the bees; do I need to move them at least 3 miles from the hive so they do not return?
thank you!
Kimberly, Novato CA (newbie)

[Gypsi]

CA Bees - the bees need us all!

I have a member of our local bee group ready to provide a frame of brood for mine. It finally warmed up today. My truck is in the shop near where my trapout is set up. I need to confirm the bees are going through my trap (and no other entrances/exits), and then how long do I wait before I add that frame of brood? Temp went to nearly 70 today, is holding warm (over 55) all week. But night time temp is 40 Thursday night, 34 Saturday night. Don't want to chill the scarce brood.

Cleo?


Gypsi

[Gypsi]

Well I guess I killed this thread. On the news front, I went to see the trap today, and the bees are moving in and out of the trap entrance, foraging for elm pollen. I think I caught part of an orientation flight about 1 pm today, after the sun came out. Still a bit cool - I've been thinking about this stuff:

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/mm5/merch...=page55#SB-110

Super Boost - brood pheromone - recommended by Michael Bush, but NOT for this purpose I suspect....

Gypsi

[CaBees]

No, you didn't kill the thread and I hope you keep reporting on your progress! I am going to work equipment this weekend for my fence extraction...first create the entrance and let them get use to that and fashion a swarm trap to attach to it in a week or so. I'm in no rush as the weather has turned windy/cold. I have to set up empty hives for any swarms I capture or trap as well. I have to decide where else to set my traps; I don't have many and hate to get them ripped off.
Please do let us know how it continues to go and remember pictures!

[Gypsi]

I'm only setting 5 swarm traps remote right now - til I build a couple of plywood traps. And tops and bottoms on these - are 3/8 inch plywood. Old or sub-par homebuilt equipment - nucs good enough to hang frames for traps, but that would never work as part of a double nuc stack since the frame ledge is the wrong height. I'm screwing the lids and bottoms on. That way I don't lose telescoping tops and good bottom boards if they get stolen.

In the meantime, Cleo, are you around? I've got bees flying through, high of 53 today, low of 47 or so, but low in the 30's tomorrow. Is there a temperature guideline for installing the brood frame? (My guess would be warmer)

Gypsi

[BeeGhost]

Gypsi,

I would probably wait a bit. I just checked my trap out hive on Friday and very few bees were coming and going. More activity than before, but still not the activity that I am confident with to keep a frame of brood alive. Probably a couple weeks out before things really start happening. I am assuming that major activity is needed before the frame should be installed, but like you, this is my first trap out as well!!

[CaBees]

The hive in the fence here in Novato is showing NO Activity at all whatsoever so I am waiting to make sure they are still alive. A friends double deep super hive died out almost overnight....completely full frames of brood and honey...probably mites..this is across the street from the fence feral hive. Another friend lost 4 hives from 8 (Petaluma)...we are being hit hard. My hive is still strong...took the top feeder off since I am no longer feeding them (fed them because they were a new, small hive given to me going into fall) and the top feeder was full of crystalized sugar drawing ants.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a top between the frames and top feeder and they had draw comb up and into it! So when it came up so did two middle frames and smart aleck me did not use smoke ...wow, bees can sting thru jeans! Ouch and my poor red dog got stung too when she followed me as I was running... lesson learned.

Got the smoke and an opportunity to see they are filling out the frames nicely on my deep...will leave them alone for a couple more weeks before adding a medium super on top. Next day they were hard at work as ever...things are budding out here...so no worst for wear (3 nice welts on my thigh though...).

Swarm trap set in deep woods close to oak hive which is very active. Lesson learned...need to make them lighter! Used a medium super with screwed on thin plywood top and bottom...put 4 frames inside and lemongrass crushed (just ordered oil). I wanted to give them room to stay as I won't check it for a few weeks. Rethinking additional traps...I have degenerative disks in my neck and cannot carry heavy stuff too far...

Questions of the day: do you all put frames in your traps? Do you expect the swarm to stay in there for a few days before you can get to them?

Oh and we did have one swarm reported in Mill valley for those loco-yokos keeping track. I think spring is here...suppose to hit the 70s all week this week....

[delber]

I put all of the frames in the traps. I dont' want them to start drawing comb to the areas where the frames arent and from what I understand they will and seem to prefer it. I only check traps about once a week so that's the time they may be there before I realize it and then perhaps a day or so longer until I can get there in the evening to close them up and take them where I want them.

[beyondthesidewalks]

For the same reason as delber I fill my traps with frames. I think it's prudent to use frames that will fit in your equipment. That way removal from the trap and into the hive is a breeze.

I use foundationless frames and find that the comb needs support or it will fall out in our heat. To that end I run fishing line through the frame wire holes in my frames. It is resilient and if you get a good stretch on it will last a long time. I find that bees will attach comb to the top bar but not necessarily to the sides and bottom. Eventually they do but it seems to take a long time. Until they get the job done the fishing line does a good job of supporting your comb.

If you are using foundationless frames in your traps or hives it is imperative that you keep your traps and hives level or you will have crooked comb problems. I like foundationless frames in my traps as it gives the bees space to cluster in the trap which I have read they like to do. I have yet to build a trap with a window on the side so I could watch this behavior but I've thought about it. Something along the lines of Dennis Murrels 4 frame observation hive:

http://beenatural.wordpress.com/plans/observation-hive/ (I've wanted to build one of these for years)

Of course this would mean I'd have to luck out and pretty much catch the swarm moving in so I could watch all this. It's on my wish list.

[CaBees]

Thank you all....I need to go re-visit my swarm trap and fill it up with frames....I will try the fishing line method as I too, do not have much success trying to get the natural beeswax to stick.

[beyondthesidewalks]

Cleo hasn't been around for a while and I have a question. I don't understand how he blocks the entrance of the swarm harvester and where he puts the red plastic cone bee escape. None of the pictures I've looked at make this clear. Can anyone who purchased the WTK version or received Cleo's instructions shed light on how he blocks the tunnel and where he puts the bee escape? I'm imagining grooves on he bottom and two sides of the interior tunnel that let you slide a piece of luaun with the escape in it at the end of the tunnel. Any ideas?

[CaBees]

I just heard from him and will copy what he wrote me as I asked about the queen blocker too. He is pretty much away from the internet until March 9th. He had also sent me pictures and verified there will be two holes...one on the side attaching to the hive, one as an escape from the hive. The bees use it as a new chamber and when the time is right you put in a brood cell frame to lure the queen. This is where you use the queen excluder if your goal is to exterminate the hive (the one I'm targeting has to be gotten rid of per the homeowner). Otherwise if you are just gathering new hives you don't have to use it as your bees should create a new queen from the brood cells. I hope this helps:

From Cleo:
"The little red funnel is used to preclude the bees from re-entering the feral source if you are wanting to eliminate the feral colony. If you are takings starts, you do not need the little red funnel. It is a bee escape funnel, sold by Kelly, Dadant, Maxant, ( 5 for $2.00 or thereabouts), and others to restrict re-entry of bees into honey supers prior to harvest."

[CaBees]

P.s. he did not describe how to block the tunnel, I imagine you would block it same as a swarm trap with material of your choice when it comes time to move it!

[Gypsi]

I checked my Hogan trap today, went to add a screen funnel to stop the bees from re-entering the wall. When I was last there, 2/17, they were flying freely from the house through the hive to forage. That would be about 8 days ago. I did add the funnel. I did not see one bee in my visit though. Not in the hive box, in the air around it. Temp was about 65 degrees, beautiful sunny spring day, I went up the ladder fully suited.

My thoughts are:
1. It was near 32 last night, maybe they decided not to come out?
2. Absconded for whatever reason.
3. Robbed out? Given that we've had pollen, elm, since I put it on, I don't think so.
4. Died, for whatever reason. There was a fairly hard freeze, maybe 27 degrees 2 weeks ago, after my last visit (will have to look up-thread to find out exactly when that was, I believe it was the day I dropped off the Ranger to the shop.)

Any other ideas - I'm open. In the meantime, the screen funnel is on the tube inside the hive trap, about 3/8 inches in diameter. Bees can come out, but going in will be difficult. I'll recheck Wednesday - if no bees I guess I'll cork the hole in her wall and take the trap down. We have steadily warming temperatures until then.

Gypsi

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Gypsi...Everyone. I am in Florida for three weeks. Internet service next to zero. Will be back in Kentucky on 10 March. Will catch up then.

Thanks.

cchoganjr

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Gypsi... I would tend to believe that your bees have clustered again and will not come out until 50 degree plus weather. If you are having 32 degree nights, it is way too cold to be trapping. You need a good honeyflow, lots of brood in the feral colony, and the feral colony running out of room in order for them to mass occupy your trap. That is why trees work so much better than houses. They run out of room quicker.

If you introduce your brood too soon, the bees may abandon it,(in the trap), and cluster in the feral area.

Be patient, let the feral hive build up before attempting to trap.

cchoganjr

[Chick]

The pain with trees, is sealing the entrance, and placing the trap. You have to build a support, seal the entrance to the trap. Nothing is square. haha. You have to get creative!

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Chick... actually a tree is very easy to seal the entrances. Use a roll of 3ft wide black plastic and wrap around tree. As for support, attach your transition securely to the tree and the transition will hold the trap. If you can't do that, you can also use, (borrow one if you have to) a portable deer stand.

If that doesn't work, then be creative. HA!!!

cchoganjr